What's the deal with 24 month minimum breeding age? - Page 4

What is your kennel name? How long have you been breeding? Do you sell dogs with and without pedigrees?

I would like to know this so I can let people know NEVER to buy a dog from you. To ask such questions and as I read in one of your other posts insulting people, I think you must be a completely uneducated person in the area of dogs. Please stay out of the breed (or any breed ) as the rest of us are trying very hard to ensure the betterment of the breed.

why are people in a hurry to breed?
whats wrong with waiting two years?
i still prefer A stamp/
20 months is right for the SV  ---female--
2 years for male

Waiting versus not waiting.  Everyone here seems to think the logic is compelling that one waits until 2 because maturation continues and hips/elbows can be OFA'ed.

While I agree myself with waiting, I am not convinced that all the shouting adds up to an argument.  For while many folks will wait until 2 (and metaphorically shout down someone who breeds a few months younger), few of them wait much longer for a first breeding.

THERE IS NO GOOD ARGUMENT FOR THE PRECISE AGE OF 2 (except for OFA).  There are costs and benefits of waiting longer -- and perhaps the minimum age should actually be OLDER than 2.

Why not wait until 3? 4? 5?

Why not wait with a male until 6? 7?  8?

Arguments could be made for ANY of these.  In fact, older breedings, especially for males who can breed when older, would do a lot of good things:

1) we would increase the longevity of the breed;

2) we would catch middle-age onset problems and reduce them in the breed;

3) we would be able to evaluate actual versus potential conformation, actual versus potential working talent;

4) average litter size may actual be smaller, so that each pup would get more attention.

OBVIOUSLY, there is a big difference between the German system (ANY European country would put collective interests above invididual rights) and the American system (in which individual property rights -- even those that do great harm to collective interests such as social or breed value -- have been codified in an intensely individualistic legal and cultural framework).  It's funny to me how people who would lambast the AKC and prefer the SV (as I do) would, in many other areas of their lives, freak out about governmental or organizational restrictions on their individual rights to do things (such as breed their dogs) when and how they like.

My point is that if we REALLY cared only about the breed -- and were willing to sacrifice some property rights and personal freedoms to breed and sell dogs too young -- we would not breed females until they were perhaps considerably OLDER than 2, and males until they were much older.  We face a constant tradeoff (here and in political life) between individual rights to do whatever the hell we please, and doing what's right. 

There is nothing magical about the age of 2.

I know that if I were to ever try to BREAK from the breed and create a super-gsd, I would collect semen samples from the top males in the world, wait until they died years later, and tossed the samples of those who died before the age of 11 or 12 and those who looked and acted aged before their time.

I would take those super semen samples of long-lived top males and breed them to top females who were at least 5 years old.

Within a few generations I would likely have a breed of excellent dogs living to 13-14 or more and healthier and younger at  every age.

Unfortunately, the gene pool would be too narrow for good health unless I was joined by MANY people with substantial energy and resources.

My point is simple, I hope: the longer we wait to breed, the better for the health of the breed (all other things equal!)