This is a placeholder text
Group text
by steve1 on 28 March 2009 - 23:03
Changer,
Well if you are right in what you say that kennelled dogs do not work as good as dogs kept in the house, then there are some very bad Schutzund judges in this sport, for they have given the WUSV to belgium more than any other country during the last 15 years
And all those dogs are kennelled dogs who have won the WUSV or got high postitions in it, so i am at a loss as to where the sport is heading if you are correct in what you say.
There are going to have to be some big houses if some of them need to go your way and keep them as house dogs
If you live in the states i guess you will have one of your house dogs in the USA trials for the WUSV this year
Steve
Well if you are right in what you say that kennelled dogs do not work as good as dogs kept in the house, then there are some very bad Schutzund judges in this sport, for they have given the WUSV to belgium more than any other country during the last 15 years
And all those dogs are kennelled dogs who have won the WUSV or got high postitions in it, so i am at a loss as to where the sport is heading if you are correct in what you say.
There are going to have to be some big houses if some of them need to go your way and keep them as house dogs
If you live in the states i guess you will have one of your house dogs in the USA trials for the WUSV this year
Steve
by jletcher18 on 28 March 2009 - 23:03
kennel or not
show vs work
whats a real dog?
whats a hard dog?
i can sum all of this up in one word.
interpretation
now color, thats a different story. read the standard.
john
show vs work
whats a real dog?
whats a hard dog?
i can sum all of this up in one word.
interpretation
now color, thats a different story. read the standard.
john
by Changer on 29 March 2009 - 00:03
I did NOT SAY that kenneled dogs do not do as well as house dogs. I said that MY house dogs (which I have now) are better TRAINED dogs than my kennelled dogs. (which I had ten years ago.) I hope that we are all better trainers ten years from now. Now I prefer to keep my dogs in the house, which is my personal choice for right now. Obviously I don't disagree with having dogs in the kennel since I have had many.
I said that in my opinion, I think that isolating a dog is a bit much and that since we breed high drive dogs, I think that you can get enough drive without isolating the dog. I disagree with statements saying you can only have a top quality competition dog if it lives in the kennel, which is an opinion I heard all the time when I first joined the sport. There are examples of kennel dogs winning the WUSV and there are examples of house dogs winning as well. It is a personal choice and works with whatever lifestyle said person chooses.
Why does everyone take an opinion and turn it into black and white and proclaim that is what everyone else should do? Only kennel dogs do well, only house dogs are treated well, etc....... I am only saying what works for me, and providing an example for other people to follow or not. It is your choice.
Did I say that the fact that a hunter gets a hunting dog to help him hunt makes him a lesser owner? Not at all. In fact if he's hunting regularly with the dog, that dog has a better and more satisfied life than most pets. But if the dog lives in the kennel 24-7 for 358 days out of the year, and comes out for that one week of hunting, then yes, I would classify him as a lesser owner.
I said that in my opinion, I think that isolating a dog is a bit much and that since we breed high drive dogs, I think that you can get enough drive without isolating the dog. I disagree with statements saying you can only have a top quality competition dog if it lives in the kennel, which is an opinion I heard all the time when I first joined the sport. There are examples of kennel dogs winning the WUSV and there are examples of house dogs winning as well. It is a personal choice and works with whatever lifestyle said person chooses.
Why does everyone take an opinion and turn it into black and white and proclaim that is what everyone else should do? Only kennel dogs do well, only house dogs are treated well, etc....... I am only saying what works for me, and providing an example for other people to follow or not. It is your choice.
Did I say that the fact that a hunter gets a hunting dog to help him hunt makes him a lesser owner? Not at all. In fact if he's hunting regularly with the dog, that dog has a better and more satisfied life than most pets. But if the dog lives in the kennel 24-7 for 358 days out of the year, and comes out for that one week of hunting, then yes, I would classify him as a lesser owner.
by jletcher18 on 29 March 2009 - 01:03
Changer asked "Why does everyone take an opinion and turn it into black and white and proclaim that is what everyone else should do? "
because its the way of the database. im right, the rest of you are wrong, and if you dont agree with me then we have to fight about it.
too many narrow minded people who dont have the ability to think for themselves, yet they do think they know whats best for the rest of us.
live, learn, and leave the rest of the b.s. here alone.
john
because its the way of the database. im right, the rest of you are wrong, and if you dont agree with me then we have to fight about it.
too many narrow minded people who dont have the ability to think for themselves, yet they do think they know whats best for the rest of us.
live, learn, and leave the rest of the b.s. here alone.
john
by sueincc on 29 March 2009 - 01:03
1. I asked you to clarify your statement as I was not sure if I understood what you were saying or not. So thanks for clarifying, sorry if you feel put out by the question.
2. You posed the question "why do you have a dog because you like dogs or to be on the podium?" which I feel is not germain to the issue and consequently why I used the analogy of the hunter. I was speaking to the issue of why someone has a particular breed, not whether or not the retriever is kenneled.
by snajper69 on 29 March 2009 - 02:03
I think dog's have a great ability to adapt to any enviroment. Which ever choice we humans make we make it for us not the dog, so some people need to stop laying to them self that is for the dog, because in the end it's not it's for you. There are pro and cons with any situation, I use all, runs, crates, home enviroment, shit even a house ;). But at the end of the day it's my decision, and most of the time we make it because it fits better with our lifestyle, or belives not because it's better for the dog. Same go for people that choose to feed raw, high quality kibble, diner scraps or whatever, at the end of the day dog is an oportunistic animal, and will cope with anything, I seen healthy dogs that are 100% outside and I seen healthy dogs that are 100% inside, as well I seen dogs on different feeds and once again all healthy ;). Dogs our tougher than we give them credit for.
by blair built gsd on 29 March 2009 - 03:03
I always knew how i felt about the way he treated the dogsby keeping them kenneled. But in saying that i also think that he loved his dogs. Two moons i understand what you are saying and i felt the same way. Given he is a man with alot of stuff going on all day runing the bigest training kennel in the city. I dont think the dogs realy minded because that was all they ever knew but if they had their choice i think they would pick a different lifestyle with more time out of their pens. My main question is do you think it makes a better working dog? What do those of you who do work your dogs say i can see it helping maybe with some work that takes more focus. I myself dont agree i have gsds to live with and have as members of are family and that makes me happy. I would also say that my dogs are happy also judging by the way they act. When myself and outher half decided to start schH training we talked about this and we both decided that we would rather have a friend and family member than a schH world champ. Now we are going to title her in schH but if she does not become a world champ that is fine with us. All of you who are world class competitors please tell me how you feel.
by Two Moons on 29 March 2009 - 04:03
Does it make a better working dog?
No.
Have you ever eaten veal?
You think thats a real cow?
They are raised in a crate and fed milk, no exercise, that might make the meat tough.
Its not uncommom to confine a dog before training to make the freedom appealing, make training fun.
Not the same thing as you describe.
They don't know any other life, thats all they ever knew. I am positive they knew.
What you describe is not a dog, its a machine. A living robot. Un-natural and unhealthy mentally, lacking any kind of life other than the sad substitute of what someones idea of work is.
Maybe someone with such a large kennel cares about other things.
What do you think a working dog does?
World class competitors..... Please.
Your asking the fox how he likes his chicken.
I stand by my earlier statment.
No.
Have you ever eaten veal?
You think thats a real cow?
They are raised in a crate and fed milk, no exercise, that might make the meat tough.
Its not uncommom to confine a dog before training to make the freedom appealing, make training fun.
Not the same thing as you describe.
They don't know any other life, thats all they ever knew. I am positive they knew.
What you describe is not a dog, its a machine. A living robot. Un-natural and unhealthy mentally, lacking any kind of life other than the sad substitute of what someones idea of work is.
Maybe someone with such a large kennel cares about other things.
What do you think a working dog does?
World class competitors..... Please.
Your asking the fox how he likes his chicken.
I stand by my earlier statment.
by blair built gsd on 29 March 2009 - 06:03
I hear you Moons i can tell you feel strongly about this and i do to realy i hated it i would get them out myself and let them hang out with me while i would take them outside and play ball with them hell he even did that to the theropy dog a lab and you would have to spend a hour with her before you think about puting her in the car she was so pumped up you couldnt think about takeing her around a bunch of old sick people and i think that some of them do want a robot like i said that is exactly why he said he done it he didnt want a freind he wanted a mahine and it looks like he is not the only one its just not for me but i like to hear how others feel
by steve1 on 29 March 2009 - 06:03
Changer
No where have i said Kennelled dogs make better work dogs i am quoting you, and i said if you are right then everyone over here in Belgium is wrong because most of the best ones keep there dogs in Kennels to live a life of fresh air, and that is my reason for letting the dogs live a life in the open air
Even wild animals in a zoo including wolves are free to live in the fresh air if they wish to,a dog in the house has no choice it is only the choice of the owner, simply because the said owner thinks it best NOT most times for the dog but for themselves, and there style of living
For myself i have had my dogs outside to live a fresh air life for 57 years years plus without any health problems that for me is the right way
I have said this on another thread similar to this one
Dogs are very adaptable to what humans want from them , but Dogs like all animals and birds like a system meaning they like and expect to be given walks and being fed at certain times if you take your dog out for a walk say early in the morning for some period of time and then feed it when it gets home after a short break, it will come to expect that
But if you then change this rhythem and keep changing the times during the days and weeks that will then up set the rhythem and balance of the dog,they llke a system by which they can expect the attention for there wants not a slap happy system it throws the dog out of balance, and that applies to other domesticated animals and birds as well
Blair
Just because a dog does not live with the family in the house, does not mean that it is not a friend and just as loyal to its master far from it, I have had dogs who no one would even lay a hand on me if they valued the arm for the dog would have had them in a flash, but saying that they were as friendly as the next dog with people so long as they never touched me the owner, Now if i put my hand out to shake there hand, the dogs did nothing just sat there, and they all lived out doors
Again a thread that will go no where we start off saying our views then some start the same old clap trap of some trying to bend the will of others, for me that is rubbish and a cop out,
Steve
No where have i said Kennelled dogs make better work dogs i am quoting you, and i said if you are right then everyone over here in Belgium is wrong because most of the best ones keep there dogs in Kennels to live a life of fresh air, and that is my reason for letting the dogs live a life in the open air
Even wild animals in a zoo including wolves are free to live in the fresh air if they wish to,a dog in the house has no choice it is only the choice of the owner, simply because the said owner thinks it best NOT most times for the dog but for themselves, and there style of living
For myself i have had my dogs outside to live a fresh air life for 57 years years plus without any health problems that for me is the right way
I have said this on another thread similar to this one
Dogs are very adaptable to what humans want from them , but Dogs like all animals and birds like a system meaning they like and expect to be given walks and being fed at certain times if you take your dog out for a walk say early in the morning for some period of time and then feed it when it gets home after a short break, it will come to expect that
But if you then change this rhythem and keep changing the times during the days and weeks that will then up set the rhythem and balance of the dog,they llke a system by which they can expect the attention for there wants not a slap happy system it throws the dog out of balance, and that applies to other domesticated animals and birds as well
Blair
Just because a dog does not live with the family in the house, does not mean that it is not a friend and just as loyal to its master far from it, I have had dogs who no one would even lay a hand on me if they valued the arm for the dog would have had them in a flash, but saying that they were as friendly as the next dog with people so long as they never touched me the owner, Now if i put my hand out to shake there hand, the dogs did nothing just sat there, and they all lived out doors
Again a thread that will go no where we start off saying our views then some start the same old clap trap of some trying to bend the will of others, for me that is rubbish and a cop out,
Steve
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top