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by VonKohlenBerg on 13 March 2009 - 16:03
There are ring sports in this country. Mondeo ring is growing and so is PSA and french ring has been around for a while. Just because schutzhund is the most popular does not mean you only have to train schutzhund excercises. I do suit work and muzzle work with my dogs because it tells me more about my dogs. I jump my dogs on ring jumps not just the schutzhund jumps which I think are a joke. If you are not pressing your dog to find out what their true abilities are then I do not feel you should breed your dog, but that is just my opinoin.
Quote; "I didn't say Malinois didn't bite hard..I know they can..but I think If you take a strong working GSD..the bite is stronger than a Malinois.IMO"
That is your opinion and you are intitled to in, regardless of the lack of facts you have to back it up. It is my opinoin that, regardless of breed, a dogs biting pressure in sport work is more the result of many factors such as the individual dog, genetics, mental state of the dog during biting, training, and then jaw muscle size and head structure. My opinoin is based on teaching hundreds of different dogs to bite.
The Lab was a mix. The dog would bite very very hard because the dog was scared shitless, in other words the dog would bite hard because of his mental state. The dog would lash out when aggitated bite extremely hard for about 2sec then try to run away. We worked the dog one time and quickly came to the conclusion that the dog was not going to work. But still the dog bit very hard.
by Christopher Smith on 13 March 2009 - 16:03
French Ring was designed for Malinois..
When will this ignorant fallacy die? This is simply untrue. French Ring was dominated by GSDs until the late 70’s. And a Malinois did not win the championships until the 80’s.
You might be able to say the Malinois was designed by Ring, but you can’t say that Ring was designed for the Malinois.

by july9000 on 13 March 2009 - 16:03
Of course I know that..I was more comparing two individuals with good genetics and mental state that have been trained with good decoys and trainers..every dog is individual and there is a lot of components for the making of a great dog.
A dog that is scared is never a great biter...The grip is never steady..never full sometimes on the side of the sleeves and you cannot put any pressure. I don't understand that with all your experience you could not come to that conclusion even before making the dog bite. A fearfull dog is never a good working dog..you can't take fear out of a dog..he can learn to control the situation but will never be able to take any pressure or have a full good grip (steady) on the sleeves..
by Held on 13 March 2009 - 16:03

by july9000 on 13 March 2009 - 18:03
Go see that link..French ring (belgium ring) was invented before GSD!! They made it for belgian sheepdogs in the beginning..
http://users.skynet.be/hexental/belringsport.htm
by VonKohlenBerg on 13 March 2009 - 18:03
July9000 quote; "I don't understand that with all your experience you could not come to that conclusion even before making the dog bite." the dog was a club members pet house dog, she just wanted to see if the dog would bite. It was worked one time one bite and that was the end of his schutzhund career. By the way there are plenty of dogs that are scared and bite hard calm and full. And just because a dog does not bite calm, ful,l and hard does not always mean they are scared.
Held, we all know they are two different breeds. When selecting a working prospect, regardless of the breed of dog you choose to work with, you would still look for certain traits, such as Health, Temperament, and Drives.
In the video in question do you not agree that the little puppy is a good working prospect? Would you not want to see those behaviours in your working line shepherd? If you bought a WL gsd puppy and it acted like the puppy in the video would you be disapointed? What do you not understand? A good working dog is a good working dog.
by Christopher Smith on 13 March 2009 - 20:03
French Ring and Belgian are two very different sports from two different countries. We are talking about French Ring here.
by Christopher Smith on 13 March 2009 - 20:03
I think the GSD was (is?) not competitive in ring due to a few reasons. The first is the Martin brothers, and their ilk, were doing their thing in the late 70's and the GSD breeders embraced the big black and red show dogs. This rippled throughout the GSD world and all dogs including working lines felt it.
Also during the late 70’s the suit change to a more light weight and mobile construction. This allowed the decoys to do things that they had never done before. So with the breeders now pushing for a larger dog with an exaggerated forward moving gait, the GSDs were having a hard time catching the decoy. Few people like to play in a sport that they could no longer win and handlers moved to the Malinois.
I also think that the fact that the SV does not accept ring titles for breeding is a huge obstacle.
We did meet at the WUSV.

by ZVZW on 14 March 2009 - 04:03
Jerry Hicklen
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