DO YOU SELL YOUR PUPPIES WITH A CONTRACT - Page 4

Hey Karen,

Totally off topic...What is a "Plonker"?

Jasmine

IDA BITHIM

A total idiot

karen 

BULL TO THE ONE WHO BRED THE DOG AS THE PAPERS ARE STILL IN YOUR NAME I WOULD THINK THE PUPPIES PAPERS WOULD COME BACK IN Y OUR NAME    LET HER OR HIM KEEP HIS PUPS BUT DONT SIGN OVER ANY PUPPIES PAPERS     LET HER SELL THEM UNREGISTERED IF THEY LIKE AND GIVE PAPERS ON THE DOGS NEXT LITTER PEOPLE ARE SNEAKY AND LIE TO YOU ABOUT WHAT THIER UP TO. LET IT BE ON THE ONE WHO BRED THE DOG DISHONESTLY  NOOOOO PAPERS FOR THE PUPS UNLESS MORE IS GIVEN TO THE ORIGANOL BREEDER

BULL TO THE ONE WHO BRED THE DOG AS THE PAPERS ARE STILL IN YOUR NAME I WOULD THINK THE PUPPIES PAPERS WOULD COME BACK IN Y OUR NAME    LET HER OR HIM KEEP HIS PUPS BUT DONT SIGN OVER ANY PUPPIES PAPERS     LET HER SELL THEM UNREGISTERED IF THEY LIKE AND GIVE PAPERS ON THE DOGS NEXT LITTER PEOPLE ARE SNEAKY AND LIE TO YOU ABOUT WHAT THIER UP TO. LET IT BE ON THE ONE WHO BRED THE DOG DISHONESTLY  NOOOOO PAPERS FOR THE PUPS UNLESS MORE IS GIVEN TO THE ORIGANOL BREEDER

In Europe it is 12 months to have Hips and Elbows certified,

I mentioned on another Thread a week or two ago that it takes Ages to get results from the SV  as Goran had his Hips and Elbows Done  at 13.5 months old

Got the results back only last Friday,

Hips A Normal, Elbows are perfect as well, so that is a good thing for the Pup

Zac' The way i read Karens First post is that she told the Buyer she did not want the Female Mated before she was 18 months Old,

To me that means the Bitch must not be in contact with a Dog until the 18 months is up and over with

It did not say she could be put with a Dog at 16 months old then tell Karen when the Female was 18 months old that she had been served two months earlier.

It is quite plain to see and the Purchaser is the one that is at Fault

Steve

I agree with Karen & Steve.  This issue/topic was clearly covered and the buyer knew exactly what she was doing and was very pleased about it per the posts she made on another thread.    I hope she also realizes by breeding such a young female who has NOT completely developed, because she breed this dog so young she has put her health and longevity at risk.  As a woman she should know full well pregnancy depletes your body, same is true of dogs, that is another reason you wait before breeding.  Especially a GSD who already has issues from growing so rapidly.  I don't know who the person is breed this young dog but if she really has any experience from working at a Vets' office, you sure can't tell and  she is truly a work of Art.  OFA's aren't certified until a dog is 24 months old for a reason, the dog isn't finished developing.  What is the point of having rules before breeding like Schuzhund title, KKl, OFA's, etc. and then skipping all that to get a little bit of money from selling a litter of pups.  Seems to me your reputation and ability to sell any litter of pups is going to be MUCH better if you go through those requirements FIRST establishing your bitches breeding quality.  This young female will most likely never meet her full potential now that she has been turned into a brood bitch.  You need to look no further for the demise of the GSD breed with practices like this.  There is a lot to be said for the German Traditions in breeding GSD's.  Their ways are not always easy, or quick but they are proven and there's a good reason behind them and it's NOT money.  I have a 16 month old female who is in heat now.  I lock her up better than I would a convicted criminal to prevent ANY breeding and I'm NOT a breeder of a kennel who should know better.  Just an average person with a little common sense.             

Teri

Teri

Yes, in the USA the Joints are as you say officially done at 2 years old, Over here as i said we can do it after 12 months in Gorans case 13.5 months with Fred he was 15 months old

However My Sport is in Scutzhund only ,

I am not at all interested in the breeding of any species of Dog, But the reason i have there Joints Certified at the age i did was because i do not want to work a young Dog in the Sport, which can be fairly hard on the Joints as you porbably know, if something is not correct in the formation of his Legs and bones etc

So i would rather spent the money to find out before any damage can really be done to the Dog or make things worse that they might already be

But as you say they are not fully developed but i think it a good thing in the Sport i do, for my concern is for the Dogs welfare only

Steve

I can appreciate your desire to check your dogs joints early for any issues before working them hard.  I think that is a great idea to make sure they are develpoing correctly.  Trust me when I say, I am just as eager as you and most others to get my dogs training & working early.  Question; do you think the extra stress from training and working them can contribute to issues in a dog who might other wise have no issues?  Do you think working these dogs could affect their OFD had they not been worked either at all or as much????

With the amount of time required to train and get your dog working well I certainly want as much time working with my dog(s) as possible.  Does anyone think we could be limiting our dogs workable  years by over doing too early for them?  Different breeds mature at different rates both physically and mentally.    

Teri   

Personally I think by scoring early you get a good indication of the genetic quality of the hips, as there is less time for environmental to have affected them.  Im a great believer in early scoring as then you know whether to allow a dog to be very active or whether it needs to have a more sedentary life.

Yes Im sure you could score later and compare, however it would be harder if you only scored at say 3 to see what is genetic and what is the result of environmental factors.

I have an oldie who was scored at 1 (with a good score)  and has had a very active life and he is very sound for his age, although Im sure you could find another that has had a similar life but very different condition.  Also if a dog who was scored early had an accident say maybe bad impact from a fall etc, it would enable the vet to assess the xrays knowing whether what they were seeing was as a result of the accident or not.

First, what does the term "have a run on" mean?  Just curious.

I'm not remotely versed in how paperwork or contracts work in the UK so can't really comment on the issue. But from a moral standpoint, the buyer is extremetly suspect and broke the spirit of the contract if nothing else.

I sell all pups with no papers until 2 years old. Then pups that were sold as show/work prospects with breeding as a possiblity are seen by me. If they have passed agreed upon health checks, breed checks (per our breed) AND I have seen the dog then I will sign over the papers. From that point on, it's up to them whether or not to breed and how and when to do it. I will give advice if asked, but other than that  I feel like it is their dog and so be it. I have agreements with a few other breeders in the states that I will also allow the owner to take the dog to get the "OK" (for those who are really far away). I trust these other breeders opinions so I'm lucky to have them to turn to.

In the past 15+ years I have only had 4 dogs that I've sold get full registration from me, 2 were fellow breeders and 2 were new to the breed who were really getting started. The others haven't wanted to jump through the hoops, which was fine by me. They started out all gung-ho but then saw how much work and how expensive it is to title a dog they decided a pet was just fine. The good part is that they could see how much work, time and money I'd spent and never said another word about the cost of a "good" puppy, and some even said they felt like they'd gotten a deal LOL.

I feel bad for you in this situation, as some folks around here so eloquently put it "Sometimes people suck". Not very refined, but accurate.

Annette