longevity and dog food??? - Page 4

I have a male GSD who is 12.5 years old - going on 2!

He has spent his life on kibble, initially pedigree and then onto a low protein greyhound maintenance diet for (he cant tolerate more than 21% protein).  He gets table scraps and yogurt as and when as well as egg and carrots.  He has hardly cost us a penny over the years and we hope to have him for some time to come.

I would love for that information to be readiliy accessible for pedigree research,  age and cause of death.

JustLurkin,

<Does he need less protein as senior or just smaller meals because he's not as active?>

I know high protein in a senior dog can cause kidney problems.  So I've made the adjustment based on that knowledge. 

<What is it in the Eukanuba and Iam's that keeps him healthy?>

I'm not sure that there is a magical ingredient?  I can say over the years I've always seen the healthiest coats from GSDs fed Eukanuba.  That I attribute to the Omega 3s and 6s.

<Less protein in commercial - what tmakes up the rest of the kibble? >

You can check Iams.com for the ingredients lists.  I hate to copy and paste here with that info.

I think raw is probably the healthiest option for a dog.  My issue is that it's not healthy for the family of the dog.  I have a young child and wouldn't choose to endanger him since most raw fed dogs are carriers of salmonella.  Families with children and/or immune compromised adults, shouldn't feed raw (as told to me via a veterinarian friend).

Can't resist...I have a balanced and nutrition filled story too;

A friend of mine had two husky x's.  He would have on- hand whatever cheap crap dry kibble dog food happened to be in his face when he had to shop for dog food.  He threw them any and all  table scraps including  cooked chicken bones and  the crap kibble...that is when he remembered to feed them.   Both dogs lived to be 16 and 17.  Go figure.

I personally feed a grain free kibble and also raw.  I think I spend more money on my dog than I did on my horse when I had one...lol.  but hey, there's nothing like a GSD addiction.     I've noticed there seem to be quite a few addicts here...lol.

Here's what the Orijen's "White Paper"  has to say about protein and kidney problems:

HIGH PROTEIN DOES NOT OVERWORK THE KIDNEYS
o The myth that high protein diets are harmful to kidneys probably started because, in the past, patients with kidney disease were commonly placed on low protein (and thus low nitrogen) diets.
o Science has since shown that for patients with kidney disease the concern is rather protein quality, not quantity.
o High quality protein is digestible and produces fewer nitrogen by-products.

NUTRITIONAL SCIENCE SUPPORTS HIGH PROTEIN DIETS
Long term studies feeding 19%, 27% or 56% protein diets over four years to dogs with reduced renal function show:

o Dietary protein restriction does NOT prevent the development of kidney disease.
o There is no correlation between progression of kidney disease and dietary protein level.
o Kidney function is better in dogs fed a diet of 54% protein than 27% protein.

It goes on to cover puppies, adult, senior & performance dogs and much more.

http://www.championpetfoods.com/orijen/products/.

It is a commercial dog & cat food publication but nevertheless an interesting read. 

- Susan
 

Sue-Ann

Im sorry but I have to dispute your comments about raw diet and affects on the family.  I have a friend who puppy walks for the guide dogs and they were tested for salmonella and other similar problems.  Many of them were found to be carriers and they were all fed kibble diets.

I have small children and my husband was immo compromised for several years and we fed some of ours raw and there have never been any effects on the humans.  I suspect its like many things that poor husbandry and cleanliness can cause cross contamination but only then.

>  I have fed all my PSDs commercial dog food and the (2) I raised from pups to police work on same. All except K-9 Rico lived to be at least 12 yo before departing.

>  I started them on puppy food. After one year to adult, and at seven yoa senior.

>  Maybe I am lucky, but I noticed no side effects over the years serving same to any of my dog teams.

I was fortunate early in my dog life that one of my good friends was a biomedical scientist teaching and researching at Harvard Medical school -- and he was a dog lover, too.  When I took to researching this question of longevity (the role of genes, environment, nutrition, and luck -- the big four) he gave me advice I have never discovered to be wrong.  If you want a dog to live long and well, do the following:

1) Genes. Buy a pup from older parents -- there is certainly no reason for the sire to be younger than middle age.  Ask about longevity in the pedigree.  (I have a young male who is 3-3 on a dog who was breeding at 11.) 

2) Environment.  Build up slowly and increase intensity of exercise until the dog hits his prime.  Don't overdo it with a puppy.  Don't jump a lot young.  Find time for three bouts of exercise every day -- none longer than 15-30 minutes when they are young.  Teach your dog to retrieve in water -- it is almost the only way to keep a dogs heartrate high in the hot summer months.  (His current dog is a 90 lb 12 yo who retrieves like a young dog -- NO ONE would guess that dog is over 8.)    There is still debate about pediatric neutering, but I dislike what it does for secondary sex characteristics and a dog's sense of self so much I cannot be objective, so I won't try.  A female bred often will not likely live as long as one better cared for.  Dogs are social, pack animals and probably live longer when kept with the family or at least other dogs, then when penned individually.  

3) Nutrition.  This one may shock you.  Ignore your vets, and certainly ignore anyone with an ax in the fire (producers, seller, and distributors of dog food).  VARY the food -- and often.  Always mix at least two different kibble in the bowl, as one can never know what vitamins, minerals, fiber have been destroyed in processing.  And change that mix over time!  Further, add fresh food constantly -- including raw foods.  (Keep carbs down or your dog will get fat -- but lots of fat and protein will NOT make your dog fat.  The science there is too complex to explain here.)  A dod fed on Purina and VARIED, FRESH table scraps may well DO BETTER than a dog on the highest quality kibble -- if not varied!  This is the one we just can't seem to believe.  It's the variety that gives the dog insurance against long-term health problems.  It's the proportion of fresh food vs. dried that keeps up the likelihood of usable carbs, lipids, proteins, vitamins and minerals.  If you are focused on ease of stool pickup -- your dog will die young.  You will be happy with products will drying agents such as beet pulp that dry up and scratch up your dogs intestines -- and they will likely die younger for it.

4) Luck.  Not much you can do here, but playing it safe can improve your odds.  Separate work time and food time to avoid reduce bloat.  Back off on training if joints are hurting.  Keep up the cardio workouts (swimming in summer and running in winter.)  Keep up with vet care. 

So, how do you buy and raise a dog who dies young?  Buy a pup from young parents, push him too hard as a pup and then back off too much when he is an adult, never take him swimming in the summer or running in the winter, feed him the same kibble day after day -- and one designed for small, hard stools, pen him outside by himself, and wait.

Think of how many of us have used the expression "go figure" after telling stories of dogs who were fed in ignorance of  "the conventional wisdom" yet lived a long time.  (I, myself, recall a pit bull named Flower who lived to be 16 eating only at MacDonald's -- and she was not super-sized.) This could be just an attentional bias -- those particular extreme examples stick in our minds.

Or the conventional wisdom just may be wrong.

Beepy, I forgot the exact stats, but a study I read, provided by the vet friend, had over 80% raw fed dogs testing positive for samonella. 

MVF, I think your advice is good.  My 13 year old has not been fed exclusively Iams and Eukanuba.  He's also gotten healthy human grade foods as well.  He's also been extremely active his entire life.  At age 10, when neutered, he was still OFA good.  Honestly if I could afford it, I would clone him.  He's a great dog.