New Color? - Page 4

Interesting topic :)

I've often wondered about the classification of a dog as a sable because of two colours on a hair and if that was rule set in stone..???

molly , our bi colour is similar to your girl shown.. To the outward appearance she is a bicolour , i've only ever considered her to be such. Her  black areas are as black as they come  , she has dark dark eyes  and no major bleed through bar her tan areas accept a small , almost unnoticeable silvery grey area under her chin . Although when she is losing her coat she gets a small area on her outer thigh where the silver shows through.

You can see those here

But like your girl her hair is completely silver underneath! not that you would ever guess that!

Half her hair length is /silvery grey at the root and at the top end (of the same hair) black.. I dont consider her a sable despite this two colours on the hair.

 To me she is bicolour through and through,

 She was a rescue so I dont have a clue as to her parents colouration?

 Not a sable right?

Pod,

I will post a picture of a Shar Pei that was the color I wrote about.  I am not able to locate any of my old Shar Pei links but will post them if I am able to find any links with reference to this color.

Molly,

You would say your girl is a Bi-color?  I am only curious because my Jager is really dark, but I have been told that since he has tan on his face, around his neck like a collar, and above he elbows that he is considered as black and tan?  The dog that fda shows is what some people must be referring to since she seems to be pretty darn black on top.

Just curious, I love bi-colored dogs, Jager is whatever he is, but a definate answer would be cool.

KariM - your boy Jaeger is a bicolor.  There are bicolors with clearer markings, and those with "muddied" markings - but the markings are still there - the pictures of the bicolor in fda's post show one with more "muddied" markings - the area under the chin is still a tan marking, just covered up more than your dog and mine.  My dog is "brighter" in her markings, and with her light undercoat (which may be considered poor pigment though she doesnt' produce it) is probably due to her NOT carryign the black recessive.

Anyway, back to bicolor dogs - the way you tell for sure is the markings and lack of markings.  There can be facial "cheek" markings, also under the throat, eyebrows - sometimes with age these markings get darker and seem to disappear, unless you part the hair a bit.  Legs of course, but with black running down the fronts more than a black/tan dog does - NO tan on the underchest, NO tan behind or around the ears, and none on the body at all except pants and under the tail.  The main way to tell a bicolor dog from a dark black tan is the tarheels and toemarks.  The bicolor dog will have black on the backs of the  lower legs - behind the wrist on the front and behind the lower hind leg running from hock to paw.  They will also have distinct black "penciling" on the top of each toe.  Black/tan dogs, no matter how dark they are, will not have tarheels and toemarks.  Your bicolor dog has them, and so does mine, even though their markings are 'brighter" than some bicolor dogs.

molly

Thanks Molly, that is good to know.  He does have pencil markings on his toes both front and back.  Once a guy at work asked me what was wrong with my dog's toes, he thought they were crooked!  I had previously thought the tarheels did make him a bicolor, but was told he was black and tan! 

I guess I'll keep him!

I have two pups, I am wondering what color they will end up being?  Bi color or Black/red?  The first is a picture at 2 weeks, the second picture is at 6 weeks.  They are now 8 weeks and still the same markings.  No spreading on their faces.

I am assuming they will be bi color.  They have the tar heels and penciling on their toes. 

Uber Land,

That is the neatest color.  Do you have her on PDB so we could look at both her parents?  I used to have a silver fox, and that is the same color..  Very interesting.

KIM

JustK9s, sometimes it is very difficult to tell bicolor vs black/tan with younger puppies.  Even show-lines are born as dark as these puppies, then the red "spreads".  Bicolors' tan will not spread - instead often the black gets "blacker".  Black/tans get shading behind the ears first (you can part the hair just behind the ears to check your pups) and then the toe marks fade and disappear.  But sometimes pups are older before they do that. 

molly

Cain, thank you for posting the photo.  I've had a look through other Shar Pei sites to get a jist of the colours in this breed and I think what you're seeing here is something quite different from the GSD blacks and sables.

Shar Peis have dominant black, a K locus pattern that doesn't occur in the GSD.  It is thought that when this occurs as a heterozygote, in some instances, the A locus pattern 'shows through and in the photo you gave, that would be sable with the genotype probably  A ^y_  K^b k^y .  So yes, 'reverse sable' is quite a good term for it.  This pattern is known in other breeds as seal.

Thanks Molly..  I have been wondering. 

KIM