Is this Normal for a Schutzhund Club - Page 4

 This thread reminds me of the advice I got from the breeder of my Axel to quote" Never give up on a dog too soon because there is nothing more embarrising then going to a trial and having your ass handed to you by a dog that you said would never work"

Why i say what i have said on this subject, is because my Pup was a little slow on the up take to begin with and the first club i went to with him did not say anything out of place like the Pup will not make the grade,

What they did do was to give us the cold shoulder and not include us in the sport, leaving us to our own devices and to train alone when everyone was finished

Now this was bad plus the fact at that time a lot of them spoke English and we very little Dutch so we were left out on our own and we really did not know why

After a while it became too much to take and so not to cause an arguement, i looked around for another club, then

I spoke to Rinus Bastenssen, and he said come over to his club which we did, As a lot know he is the Belgium Team Schutzund Captain, and gives advice to all of the top Competitors here and is highly thought of as one of the great trainers over here in Belgium

Anyway he took an interest and helped us a great deal and still does come out on the field when we are working the Dogs to train both us and the Dogs, My Brother handles this particular Dog Fred

He is not the Dog they said at the other club, now 17 months old he is a very high driven Dog really awesome in the Protection, when you get Gofodumas, swear words from the Pakwerker when he hits them you know they feel it ,for that is a swear word, plus his outs and Bark in the Hide is second to none, and his courage is never in question

I am not trying to boost my dogs talents up for he has a long way to go and learn, just to say that not all  Dogs are dummies at a young age,

One thing has always stayed with me from this first club and the way we were treated, is that when i walked away and i never said a word out of place to them is that Fred will go back and enter a competition in that club, I do not care if he wins or not

Just to enter and show them that they were wrong in there treatement of strangers and there Dog, and that the two Engel brothers are not as stupid as they thought

There faces will tell it all and the satisfaction will be mine, and it will not be long before it happens

I will not need to say anything to them,

Steve

Dogs like humans sometimes take awhile to catch onto the game.  This working dog is still young in mind to give it a nah. I was very lucky to find my group,  there were training sessions that we should have just stayed home and picked flowers but the trainer kept on with his encouagement and patience, patience and more patience.  Mine and my dogs determination and work  payed off in the end.

I did not see whether the original poster stated if this was a working or a showline club.  In my experience, this is more likely to happen in showline clubs, which are more typically associated with larger breeding kennel/importing businesses. 

Due to the large size of the bigger showline kennels, they tend to have a glut of puppies to unload, charge significantly higher prices for them (then a well bred working line pup) and have all of the club members caught up in the "drink the kool-aid" mindset.  I'm sure there are working-line clubs that operate in a similar fashion, but from what I've seen, since WL pups are harder to place/sell (due to much smaller market segment and much more discriminating buyers) it seems the breeders/importers of working lines (even the shady ones) tend to do much lower volume then the showline kennels, therefore they don’t seem to have the same market pressures.  Further, since the WL crowd seems to be both more discriminating and knowledgeable about how the dogs should actually be performing, it doesn’t take long for people to catch onto shady WL sellers.  While not attempting to start a showline vs. working debate (I own both) the showline clubs I have worked with on whole seem to expect much less from their dogs and often more into “for fun” or because it is a requirement for breeding, whereas the working line people are more into for the sport.  Since many of the showline enthusiasts don’t leave the pond frequently, it is much harder for them to have a basis for comparison as to whether they are being manipulated. 

So, the main point being, I've seen this personally with the first club I worked with and have not since with several other clubs.  The first was a showline associated club, the others were all working line.  Not saying this is a hard and fast rule, but have discussed it more than once with locals and people from other areas of the country and it seems pretty consistent. 

-Calvin

Steve1

It seems that we have all shitters and over there, you don't have reading comprehension.  Read my first post.  I never told her she had a shitter.  I told her to get another opinion.  My comment on shitters was that you all sound like every dog is great, just give it time.  I wanted to stress that there definitely are dogs that don't cut it and need to be placed.  And don't act like there aren't any in Europe.  Otherwise, there wouldn't be thounsands that get sold to USA.

some really good advise given here by some people but i just want to know what is exactly your dog does not have according to these people.does it not have enough prey drive or is he lacking energy or desired for the work or does not show he has good nose for tracking or no sign of defence instinct or whatever but just saying the dog does not have it is not very helpful at all especially if u r new to this game.thanx and have a nice one.

Shelley Strohl says "Our club will help you get a BH on a pink giraffe if it isn't seriously dangerous and you're willing to put in the work and committment to get the title"

LOL I can attest to that, of all the clubs I've been to her's has been the most unbiased and helpful/ supportive to newbies.

Shelley Strohl says "Our club will help you get a BH on a pink giraffe if it isn't seriously dangerous and you're willing to put in the work and committment to get the title"

Our club doesn't get many new members so we normally get time to help newbies with the basics. But after much sweat and tears they usually give up and buy themselves a working line dog after about 12months. On the other hand i'm sure we all have stories about the "ones who made it". We had a rescue showline once, probably neglected before, skinny as a rake when rescued. Almost zero drive, wouldn't chase anything, moped around. Owner was a one of the best dog persons i have ever met despite being new to schutzhund. Many months later, dog was he hardest biter in the club, nice control on and off field, great drive when required but brilliant off switch at home...... Needless to say we were all surprised, but the owner wasn't. He knew it was in the dog all along.

Mr Corleone

It is yourself calling some Dogs the word Shitter, and my reply to you was if the club does not think it good enough then in your words it is a Shitter.

Of course not many Dogs make the high grade we are all looking  for,  

but yourself  you seem to think after possibly owing a dog for a year or two, if it does not make the grade pass it on, Showing that you have no real feeling for any animal thats the way i read your post,

So its Corleone only and bugger the dog who probably thinks the world of you

if you  think that fair, then you would be a sad person

As for the Dogs in Europe and passed on to the USA i know nothing about that, had Dogs for over thirty years and never bred a single Pup, and never will, not even if i owned the 2008 World Champion, which of course is not yet known

Plus the fact i wonder why you Guys over there need and Dogs from Europe any time seeing its common place throughout the world, that you have the best of everything over there in the USA

As for the English language, it was not invented in the USA you only use a slang version of it

Steve1

Steve1:

            I enjoy reading your posts most of the time and you do have to forgive the air of superiority that you feel we in the US have towards the rest of the world and Europe, It probably stems from the fact that every time Europe gets it,s tit in a ringer it,s those crewd over baring pompus US folks that have to pull your ass out of the fire. Pardon me from strayinfg from the topic