The so called accredited breeder scheme (U.K) - Page 4

arbeiter please refrain from turning another thread into a ridiculous slanging match.

i fail to see what sueb and mo's breeding practices have to do with you.

if you do have a problem then that is for another thread,

thank you

Tracie.   

fda - your reference to the healthy checks fits exactly with what I said earlier - using the analogy of sitting a test knowing you cant fail!

I think also that what ever you come up with in the way of recognising breeders witha stamp or something is that there are many extremely good breeders out there who dont want to sign up to a scheme - especially when they have to pay to do so.  Both in and out of the GSD world the best breeders I know for health screening, long term care support etc and being able to provide knowledge of several generation of dogs, either of their own breeding or by selecting studs from kennels with a history and who are undertaking the relevant screening and getting impressive results are not and do not want to be accredited breeders and most probably wouldnt get involved with a gold seal system either.  Also with their good reputations securely in place, with word of mouth referrals and people returning for more dogs they dont need to be part of any system.

arbeiter, considering my comments regarding DNA testing written earlier in this thread, I now fail to see the relevance or purpose to your question to me regarding DNA testing. However, In the vain hope of providing you with sufficient information to quell your own curiosity (for whatever reason prompted you to ask such a question in the first place), the best answere I can give you is both Yes and No.

Daira x Bazi  litter Yes and Yes.    --   Damera x Cedric Amour litter  No and Yes.

If you have enough GSD knowlege Arbeiter, the answere to your question was simple enough to work out. As not all parentage DNA tests use the same markers, I have been reliably informed that a UK DNA test is not comparable with the German DNA test.  Which to my laymans understanding of Genetics, means that if I had a female I bred tested here in the UK and then mated her to a Foreign dog (be it an import or not) which had its DNA done under the German system, then proving the pups parentage from the DNA data derived from two different tests would still be impossible. Put like that dont you think it makes the whole point of DNA testing a pointless excersise and will remain to be so until such time as the powers that be come up with an agreed DNA parent testing criteria whereby they all use the same markers.

And you being German arbeiter, I would have thought you would have been more up on this subject yourself !! Feel quite priveledged you felt the need to ask 'little ole me'.  

Hi Tigermouse, Tracie, good luck with the KC. How will this points system work though? Will it be a bit like grading Hotels, 3 stars if you doing hips, giving back up service, puppy packs, Microchip / Tatoo, 1st immunisation before leaving breeder, the 4 stars if you DNA and Elbows, 5 Stars if you swab for DM, JRD, and whatever else they find a DNA marker for in the future. And all providing that the xrays were graded of course. What about inclusion of breed assessments such as German Korung or UK Breed Survey, or even Working Tests, do breeders get more Stars for doing this? Sorry for playing Devils Advocate here Tracie, but just wanted to prepare you for the minefield you are about to enter, been there, done that on many occasions and can assure you the seat is not a comfortable one. Dont want to put you off, will do all I can to support you but still wanted you to be aware of just how complicated this whole thing could become.

All the Best

Sue B

HiAlbeiter,

I dont mind your question, the answer to it is yes, I am at last moving with the times.... Dayna is done, Dixie is done and I`m on my next one.  Not to fulfill criteria for this scheme that we are discussing, but to do it because its the right thing to do now that this is available and I am getting up to date with good practice in that area.

Your point proves the disability of the AC scheme - as I said in my first post, I joined it - if you like - to keep up with the Jones`es.  The fact that the odd puppy farmer can join the scheme if he has £15 to spare and hip scores his dogs has no bearing on whether they are worthy animals to breed from, or indeed old enough to breed from.  My feeling is that if you cant beat em ... (FOR NOW) ... join em.... rather than have a puppy farmer, or some-one that has never ever bred a litter - higher up the scale in recommendation by the K.C. to Joe Public than yourself.

When I sell a puppy, I let new owners know that the AB scheme - sometimes the reason they fo me in the first place - isnt worth the paper its written on, and they are amazed when I tell them that i have NEVER been checked out by the KC, I can divulge this readily, because when people buy a puppy from me , as well as being able to see everything that goes on, and the mental stability of my dogs and their surroundings - including a walk around the ones that are not relevant to the puppy - they get a written statement that the puppy/dog can come back at any time in its life if circumstances change.  They get full paperwork, a diet sheet, instruction leaflet, 6 week puppy course , a leaflet to join Justice for Dogs a written explanation as to why the endorsements are on the pedigree that they sign and keep a copy of so they understand it- and every phone number we own to contact if there is a problem.  Did I need this AB scheme, I dont think so, like others on this board - we do things right and did do long before the KC wanted to make money out of the need for people to find exceptional breeders, and then to not check whether their members of this scheme were actually worthy.

Sue

Lets support Tracie with her thoughts and plans, perhaps it will be a rough ride, but hey - it would be worth it to get rid of the nonsense of this money spinner for the K.C.  There are so many people have joined it, and yet see that it is nothing more than nonsense when they are not checked, that it cant last if challenged.   Mo Lakin - Mascani

Beepy, how absolutely right you are !!  Despite the inference otherwise of arbeiter, we breed an average of one litter a year  and already have a five strong waiting list of people wanting pups from our next litter (three of these are repeat 'Pet' owners). Now if all goes to plan our next litter will be due to be born no earlier than Mid December, which in turn means no pups ready to home until February / March 09.  And I can tell you now with almost complete certainty, that by the time these pups are born, there will be none left available.

To fda, each to his own but there are far more important things to consider when breeding from a dog than graded elbows.

Regards

Sue B

NO Arbeiter, that is not what I am saying. But as usual it is either how limited you are at understanding or how you prefer to interpret it, constantly twisting words to suit your own crooked perception. You keep to your world Arbeiter and I'l keep to mine, must be a dark and dismal place you be to have so much negativity. God Bless, but then again perhaps it's a little too hot where you are for that kind of blessing, eh?

Regards

Sue B 

Mo, would be an absolute pleasure to join you and Tracie in trying to come up with a more reliable Breeder Assessment Scheme. Think Tracie has the right idea on a Star System, just what criteria justifies a star is what needs to be sorted and of course there must be a Minimum and Maximum limit to stars.

My next concern is the fact that some breeders are breeding from a variety of different criteria. The two litters of my own I mentioned earlier are a perfect example. One female DNA tested, Korung, gained Wkg Qualifications etc, where as the other has non of these. However, as you saw on Sunday, she has the proper character, temperament,and drive to work and no point in DNA testing in Uk as it proves nothing unless it is made MANDATORY for everyone to do it. Like I said, hate hypocracy, paying out money to do something that 99% of the time will prove nothing is ludicrous to me. If you DNA tested your female what would be the point of you then taking her to any dog other than one that had been DNA tested under the same scheme, using the same markers? 

If the scheme had some worth, where it perhaps even to grade the quality of individual litters as well as the breeder, then I would happily join it  (even though as a tool to sell my puppies I dont need to join it).

All the Best

Sue B

 Sue wrote ................................If you DNA tested your female what would be the point of you then taking her to any dog other than one that had been DNA tested under the same scheme, using the same markers?  

I Intend to take note of the dogs that have all the necessary requirements Sue.... then it would be meaningful, as it has to start some-where.   Mo

pencil: You DODGE the biggest question - who exactly are you?
Let me help you.
YOU ARE SIMON BLACK - from Chester
The Simon Black who should never be allowed to own any dog,
THAT IS WHO YOU ARTE - SIMON BLACK