GS stance - Page 4

BTW- Your dog has a very nice pedigree, showlines, and those flaws are very common in showlines....I'm not even sure if they're really considered flaws, so many showlines dogs have them...I suppose it would depend on the degree. But seriously, just love your dog and don't worry about how it looks. Unless the dog has difficulty with movement, it's not an issue, for a pet. Your guy looks very handsome, otherwise. jh

You can kind of see that she's slightly cow-hocked in this photo, but as I said previously, as she has aged it's less and less apparent. And of course, I don't photograph my dogs to play up their flaws, LOL, although some days, trying to take photos of the dogs all by myself, I'm lucky to get ANY photos at all! jh

"it is a fault and your dog also stands east west and has pinched elbows, however, this does not mean the dog is unhealthy, he could very well be able to work and be fast and agile dog despite not having great comformation, and he could even certify for OFA, ( You will need to X-ray for that.) "

Wow, I am really sorry saying this but it is hard to think this could be -- can this dog like this get an AD? Really? - I have one that is not as bad in this regard as this dog and he is very clumsy, slow, tires more quickly, and not agile compared to my ugly workingline dogs.  A dog can live to a ripe old age  and still be a fine pet with this structure (and not have bad hips or elbows) but I have a hard time believing he would be able to work day in and day out.

"BTW- Your dog has a very nice pedigree, showlines, and those flaws are very common in showlines....I'm not even sure if they're really considered flaws, so many showlines dogs have them...I suppose it would depend on the degree. But seriously, just love your dog and don't worry about how it looks. Unless the dog has difficulty with movement, it's not an issue, for a pet. Your guy looks very handsome, otherwise. jh"

Surely this is wrong?  How can this structure not be considered a serious falut?  This is supposed to be a working dog.  This is very unstable and very inefficient!  This is every bit as bad as what the Americans have done.

I am not slamming this dog - he is probably a very nice dog - but if I got this structure from a breeder I would be very very upset!  I just did not realize that the german showlines were allowing this too.

Hi, Nancy! I was trying to emphasize to someone who seems as though they are new to the breed and sounding disappointed with their dog , that having cowhocks is not a major issue for a pet, and sure, a dog with flaws can still work, that's what's so great about this breed, that even the not so perfect dogs can be functional, and all have so much heart that they would strive to please, no matter what their flaws. Don't you think your dogs are great, no matter what their little 'problems' may be? I just don't want someone to be down on their dog, that deserves to be loved. jh

Hi Nancy,

I wish the well constructed Working line dogs were given better Conformation Ratings than stylish showline saddle dogs with cow hocks and east west fronts.

and also What Kalibeck said.

I agree that a dog with this structure can live a long healthy life and be a good pet and stated so.  I have dogs with flaws and have felt free to post about them.  I would give credit to the OP for knowing something was not "right" and discredit to the breeder if they did not acknowledge it as a flaw.

I did feel that someone new should not be given the opinion that this is acceptable conformation, though because I once was listening to an Am showline owner talking about her dysplastic dog and she then pulled a dog out of her car for a bathroom break.  The dog was walking on the hocks (literally) and I said "wow, it looks pretty bad, but he does not appear to be in pain".  She then got huffy and made sure I knew this dog had earned his "champion" title and was NOT dysplastic.

She thought  a conformation that was not normal was normal ---- because she had grown to view the excessive angulation as normal.

Agreed, The angulation went to far in American Showlines in my opinion.

Hi Kalibeck,

I agree 100%.  He may have flaws but he is our dog and family companion and thus part of our family. You cannot blaim a dog or any animal for his flaws if any, as you would not blaim a child for being crippled.  I realize things happen.  In talking with other breeders I realized breeding is a touch and go thing.  There is no perfect way to determine what and how the offspring will look like.  Otherwise the guarantee would be 100% nose to tail.  Look at us humans!   Are we so perfect..........not.

Who is blaming the dog for his flaws?  I even mentioned several times that I have dogs with flaws and love them and care for them. ... no one has said the dog cannot be a fine pet. and family member.

You noticed it was off and the breeder is trying to tell you that is the way it is supposed to be (1st and 2nd post)?  IF the parents are not east-west and cowhocked**and they did not forsee it you may not be able to fault them with it happening but they should acknowledge it was not what they were breeding for and not defend it as "angulatiion" -- THAT is what I would be mad about.

**but it sounds like mom may have been weak in the hocks.  Then they should have considered that and maybe not bred her. (regardless of the quality of her hips)

Who is blaming the dog for his flaws?  I even mentioned several times that I have dogs with flaws and love them and care for them. ... no one has said the dog cannot be a fine pet. and family member.

You noticed it was off and the breeder is trying to tell you that is the way it is supposed to be (1st and 2nd post)?  IF the parents are not east-west and cowhocked**and they did not forsee it you may not be able to fault them with it happening but they should acknowledge it was not what they were breeding for and not defend it as "angulatiion" -- THAT is what I would be mad about.

**but it sounds like mom may have been weak in the hocks.  Then they should have considered that and maybe not bred her. (regardless of the quality of her hips)

Sorry Nancy, I did not mean it that way.  All I am saying is my dog has a flaw but, he is a part of our family and like most respectable pet owners we do not love him any less just because of a flaw.  He is a good boy!

And, yes I also am upset that this was being defended as "angulation".  

And then unfortunatly for me, cow-hock is not guaranteed.  I feel better knowing what I know now.  At least next time I will be more informed. 

This database is like an information center.  I  thank everyone for the information.  You all are just great people!