WHY????? - Page 4

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by 4pack on 09 January 2008 - 17:01

Is this what the board has come to? This is really sad. If a tie offends you, maybe you should get out of the dog world. When I had my bitch bred, I was sent a pic of each tie that took place and they were printed up with the stud fee as proof it took place and with the right dog.. What's the big ass deal? OMG... I said ASS! Go hide in the dark and say 100 Hail Mary's.

It's no wonder I haven't read a post in days. I think I'll go back where I have been hiding. This gets all too frustrating all too quick. This really has declined to a pet chat forum of froo froo niceties.

Did anybody stop to think maybe this took place in another country or they had to use this pic, it was all they had, maybe the owner doesn't own a camera. The whole world isn't as blessed as the US of A when it come to techno or money. Get a grip people, lighten up and spend more time picking apart your own lives.

by DeKal on 09 January 2008 - 17:01

It is good to see some of the reasonable posters return.

by senta on 09 January 2008 - 17:01

I can be only surprised about some thoughts here. And if it were not so sad - than I would smile at that. To Ceph: I saw very much, very many websites in Germany and and live here, and I see and speak with the breeders and know a lot. I cannot say that such photos are usual here - perhaps in other parts of Europe. Completely certainly not with respectable breeders of the shepherd dog in Germany. Such photos to send away or on the website place is definitaly not usually here. And each breeder knows here that a photo is at all no proof. It does not concern "animal breeding" as with cows or horses or Guinea pigs. I think that the dog breed is something else. If I buy a shepherd dog here, I would like to see the geneological table and the female with the puppies and the environment where and how there grow up. The male is mostly not in the same kennel and often many 100 km distant. If I the breeder distrust - as then such a bad ridiculous photo can be a proof for a cover act ??? What are for humans, who trust such a photo more than the breeder in person ??? And how badly the photo must be, thus prospective customers still believes it is the reality? Unbelievable. I must say that I am disappointed a little.

by Ceph on 09 January 2008 - 19:01

Senta - would you like to see the pictures that came from my Dutch breeder and the German Stud she went to? I can assure you that all of them were quite educational and some were actually pretty...well...cute O.o

As far as those offended - I would highly suggest you avoid Italy and Holland - even Switzerland - one of the more conservative nations in Europe has some pictures and post cards that are well....yeah (I saw a couple today as I walked to lunch!). I can scan some if you dont believe me. My 85 year old grandmother (resident of Milano, Italy) would less offended than this...she didnt even blink at some of the half nude beaches we have been too in Italy.

Dogs are animals - so yes - it does concern the same and breeding with cows and horses - ESPECIALLY horses - they are the closest to the dog world of any other animals. I study Animal Science at Virginia Tech - and we go into as much detail into foal making as we do in calf making and piglet making and puppy making...its all Animal Breeding and Genetics.

And one other thing - I am curious why it is okay to have novels in supermarkets where the people are practically having sex on the front cover is okay ("mommy...what're they doing?") but the basics of animal husbandry are not?

Sorry..but the selective pruditity of it makes me chuckle.

But then again...I get to deal with animal sex all the time...so it might not bother me as much - I have watched my Proff. jack off a pig before...lemme tell you - that was...well...gross...and a hec of alot more graphic than a tie. Jacking off a horse - thats even scarier O.o

Animals have sex - so do we! And we show sex on TV ALL the time in a much more graphic way than this. Is it kind of gross....yes...is it a reason to go nuclear over....no. I think its rather more offensive when people use rude language on this site.

~Cate

by senta on 09 January 2008 - 19:01

To Ceph: Yes, first I would know gladly the breeders and forget the pictures see... however please. It is unnecessary. I know that there are different humans in this world with different opinions - there I must say that me my age benefits likewise, as it Bob in another topic said. But completely apart from it - it is alike to me ( in all other respects I have already completely different much more impressing pictures as a photographer seen...), which illustrations breeders to publish to have or want or publish. Here in this topic it did not concern the question, who pruede/blocked is and who not, who has sex with whom and which nation more freely is permitted or good or which other nation other things finds or does not find good... - to separate around the question: such a picture is useful or not. The title was: WHY???? Please remember this. I think that such pictures are not useful. And if you study animal science - as my son likewise, then you should likewise know it that such pictures ABSOLUTE do not state ANYTHING ABILITY over the realities - neither with horses, cows still with guinea pigs or dogs. If you would look at yourself the picture perhaps correctly, you would not recognize times, who the male and who the female is. AND you see also otherwise nothing that could perhaps interest you. Which really good one sees however, is the self-manifestation of the owners, as if it would have its strength stressed.... ... and too better lastly: however the fact that such a photo takes up so much to our time - time, which one can spend better differently, is enough out for the result: the photo is not useful.

by JGA on 09 January 2008 - 20:01

You can pretty much pick out who the non-USA people are as they quickly state you will know by the DNA. In the USA, DNA is NOT required and usually not done on the parents. If a dog (or bitch!) has more than 6 litters total, or more than 3 litters in 1 year (only possible for males, obviously), then that dog must submit a DNA sample to have 7th and subsequent litters AKC registered.

Very rarely does the dam have her DNA done, unless she is an import as the AKC recently started requiring DNA samples on all imported ogs. The AKC does not use the same markers as in Eruope. so the dogs have to be done when imported no matter if they were done before in Eruope, AND, since the AKC uses different markers from cheek skin cells, not blood, so you can not check a dog born here against the European DNA results, so you can't verify parentage.

I was screwed by Anita Szitas (AKA Eva or Nora Nagey) on an improted male. The dog's tattoo did not match the paperwork, and there was no way to force the breeder or sire owner in Europe to submit AKC cheek cell samples, so parentage could not be verified on the dog. Europe would not process blood DNA from the USA, so I gave the dog away to a pet home since I could not be sure what his pedigree really was.

It is common to take a photo of the tie, but it is not common to use it to sell the litter...poor 'marketing', but not something to be upset about. I bought a bred bitch from Gleisneauer Schoss (Germany). Gabi sent me a photo of the tie when I inquired to buy the bitch, so I know the breeding happened. The bitch ended up empty. Not every breeding results in puppies, and with nature, to some degree "ya takes ur chances".

by Ceph on 09 January 2008 - 20:01

No - the pictures arent absolute - but they do make some people feel better - I know I wasnt expecting them when I reserved my pup - but I got them - and I could tell which dog was which.

And the answer to why it was posted - I cant say - but the person who posted it clearly thought it was useful - and I am sure some others did too - but if your not looking at the pup or the litter, then WHY is it necissary to raise a fuss?

My answer to WHY is this necissary is because in some nations in Europe - this kind of picture is found useful - and if someone was interested in the puppy they would have sent this picture to those who reserved the dog....in some places in Europe this isnt a big deal and while perhaps not necessary it is not unecessary either - it just is.

And really...who are you to say it is not useful to anyone? Someone might have found it useful.

~Cate

by senta on 09 January 2008 - 20:01

Apology - I do not know the AKC conditions so exactly. I assumed so far in this forum it is not a domestic animal forum - separates a forum for gsd. Here with each shepherd dog the DNA is made, which to breed one uses. Without DNA - no breed with pedigree. The same happens without titled. That is a simple regulation. Perhaps - may be that is the reason. Perhaps in other countries of the European Union the DNA is not required like in USA. Then there is also no geneological table or only a very incomplete. I did not know that so many shepherd dogs in the USA without papers are bred and without DNA. Then some explains. Perhaps therefore such photos for prospective customers are necessary, because these do not have to examine the chance of original papers and origin of parents. Beside: DNA is tested here exclusively over the blood withdrawal. Cate:And really...who are you to say it is not useful to anyone? Someone might have found it useful. Sorry - I mean: not useful for serious breeders...

by Ceph on 09 January 2008 - 21:01

Really?! You know all the serious breeders in the world!?! I am amazed!

lol...sorry for the sarcasm...I am done now :)

on a more serious note - I think (correct me if I am wrong) most countries dont require blood tests done. I know Germany does...but I dont think Holland does, nor do I think Belgium or Italy does....Switzerland does though I believe.

~Cate

by senta on 09 January 2008 - 21:01

ok - I forgive you your sarcasm - however only today; -) No, over those other countries I am not informed. But I think that DNA is good, if one liked to reduce the risk in the provable breed something. And around something else it does not go: the risk. And: the risk is not according to my opinion to limit by a photo. But that is ONLY my opinion.

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WHY????? - Page 4

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