One Step Forward and Ten Steps Back - Page 4

Well, to most workinline folk, coat and color are not relevant criteria and since long coats are against the standard, they are not often bred. They occassionaly pop up but are not bred for.  They are bred for working temperament and structure. You are going to see fewer blacks and tans in the workinglines because sable is genetically dominant to black and tan. [FWIW the very first GSD was a sable :) ]

You CAN find a quite liveable dog in the working lines - certainly more so than malinois (like I said, I do not know about the groenendal because the AKC, and perhaps the CKC has classed them as a separate breed but really they are just a variant of the malinois).   I gather the separation will promote indreeding for that coat type.  Anytime you breed for color and a look ......... well, that is what you are breeding for at the expense of more relevant traits.   But, it seems a conflict - with what you are asking for groenendals are narrow dogs of light bone which seems in contrast with what you have stated.  Conversely,  I know malinois do pretty well at agility, but once again not nearly as forgiving of handler errors as GSDs. 

Now if you are looking for a dog to lay around on the sofa all day and watch tv.  Maybe some Am/Can lines but not either the working or showlines.  They are an active breed that requires a lot of excercise and mental stimulation. 

Finding the right puppy is about finding the right breeder who knows the puppies in their litter and will select the puppy of the right temperament for you.  That is the other thing, many of the small very good breeders will select the puppy for you after exhaustive interviews to understand your needs. I am not sure the german showlines are lacking in drive; some say it is courage that is lacking... I don't know and am not going to get into that one.  I stopped when I found a type I really liked.

About the feet.........are you looking for very tight catlike feet?  That is not the way a GSD foot is supposed to look.

The narrow fronts, easty-westy, narrow, cowhocked dogs are pretty much a specialty of AM-CAN showlines.  The fronts on most of the german show and workingline (and other european) dogs are not typically narrow.

Most workingline litters are uniformly priced - it is in the showlines where you get great divergence of price.  I would still expect to pay $1000-$1500 for a puppy, though.  Serious small workingline breeders are not really making big profits at these prices.   In all fairness the people who raise showline dogs pay more for the dogs themselves and probably have to spend more in showing them.  You are talking about people who spend a lot of time and money working their dogs to demonstrate breedworthiness.    

 

Nancy
 
I would like to thank you for all the effort you are putting in here :)
 
My ignorance is shining through but that’s okay because I am here to learn and I am not offended. I have a hard time thinking outside of the “Working Dog” box. When people speak about drives I relate it to survival and willingness to work. So, yes I do need to go back and read up on “drives” again.
 
I have been researching the GSD for 1 year. I have also researched the Belgian for 1 year and have spoken to some people about them. It was suggested that because of my experience with Malamutes that a Malinois would be a perfect fit; my research suggests otherwise. If we choose to go the Belgian route we won’t be purchasing a puppy from a working line.
 
Penny

 

Thank you Sunsilver and no offence TooMoons – it’s all good.

Krystin I want to thank you for such a constructive post.

My DH and I have thought about rescuing a GSD. I am simply shocked at the high numbers of GSD’s in shelters and rescues across the United States however I cannot find any here. I searched the one GSD rescue site we have time and time again and they only seem to have the same 3 or 4 dogs. I have searched the local shelters only to find GSD crosses. We really don’t want a cross and I would prefer to get a dog that has spent some time in a rescue with people who are familiar with the breed.

Penny

Tezz   My name is Jerry and altough I live in the USA I figured I would write you and let you know about a man I know. He loves the older dogs too, and tries to maintain that look in his own dogs without going y todays popular pedigree trends. Three of the dog he has stem from those kinds of lines, build,and temperament. Although he is in Texas you may want to see what he has to offer and his prices are super moderate. is site is : http://vonkinghaus.net     Regards, Jerry Hicklen

 

Thank you sooo much Jerry. DH has a sister living in Texas. I will be sure to check out the site :)

Penny

And there you have it................$750 gets you a dog from non OFA'd parents with no working titles or show ratings from a mishmash of American and German lines. 

I had a backyard bred dog "old style" in the 80s - was PTS by 1due to severe congenetial defects.  I had a GSD mix in the 60s (my childhood dog) PTS around 11 - flea allergies + skin cancer.

Not going to tell you dogs are not having health problems.  All dog breeds are - generations of inbreeding with no new blood, crappy dog food, environmental issues.........................

 

"I don’t feel that a GSD puppy should cost anymore than an Alaskan Malmaute puppy, a Belgian Shepherd puppy, a Samoyed puppy etc."

Then buy a Mal, Belgian or Sammy.  If you dont want to buy a reasonable price, find another breed.  As a seller, you cannot expect dictate prices to the breeder, especially with all your demands. 

19 females/10 males is a bit high, but how do you expect a serious breeder who is breeding enough to improve the breed and maintain a bloodline with just a few dogs?  A good breeder is willing to take back dogs they have placed, has older retired pets, has pups or adults kept back for evaluation from their litters and a lot do rescue.  Dogs add up quick. 

You are describing a working style dog but want a showline, that is going to be hard to find.  My best recommendation, find a breeder who is crossing the two lines.  Buying a puppy from a straight work/show cross may not turn out how you like, so look for an adult.  The most difficult thing will be finding a quality dog from a very good breeder in your price range, price goes up with quality. 

I'm with Karly. The rescue org's have lots of dogs like you are searching for, some quite young, likely sold for a lot of money as baby pups, already housebroken. If you aren't going to breed (and I pray you are not) why not give a wonderful rescue dog the home it needs and deserves? Where do you live? I'm sure someone on this list can direct you to a rescue org. near you. At least give that option a chance. Please???

SS

Nancy,

I am one of those nasty ole BYB's  I have some wonderful dogs from that mishmash as you call it.   Mine are OFA'd  and they have all lived long healthy lives.  You dont have to be breeding from the so called top lines to produce excellent animals.  Yes there are bad breeders in every catagory, dont just single out one because you had a bad experience.

And prices range widely, I have a wonderful dog I only paid $350 for, and I have one who does have a few issues that cost me $850.   Its not the price that determines quality, you have to do your homework just like anybody else.

I just imported a dog, he's gonna cost a lot more.   Time will tell if I made a good purchase or not.

Tezz, I firmly believe you can find what your looking for but your gonna have to actually go looking in person since you have such a definitive idea of what you want.

I dont see a problem.