Is this pup a longcoat??? - Page 4

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by Ilse on 03 January 2008 - 18:01

Its a ,, langstockhaar ,,  but expl.   taking a bath??????????????//


by FionaDunne on 03 January 2008 - 18:01

Yep, Blitzen eliminate more of gene pool and really put this bred in more trouble, makes sense to me.

I don't see where eliminating coated dogs from the gene pool would put this breed in more trouble.  Long coats are a fault and shouldn't be bred.  Period.  Spay them.  Neuter them.  Place them carefully in homes that will love them when they do come out in the various litters, but don't intentionally breed them or breed for them. 

If DNA helps determine which are coats early, what's wrong with utilizing that?  The decision can be made early on to spay or neuter and prevent perpetration of the fault at at least that level. 

There are enough "faults" and genetic issues plaguing this breed without people thinking that doing something towards eliminating a fault would be detrimental to the breed. 

 


by WiscTiger on 03 January 2008 - 18:01

Do some research and look at the number of GREAT GSD's produce LC's.  There should be more effort into finding out MegaE carriers, lines that are producing dogs with EPI, is there really a genetic link to bloat.

I don't say intentionally bred LC's but I believe the SV is smart enough not to eliminate dogs that produce some LC's from the breeding pool. 

Would you want to eliminate every dog who produces pups that have a white spot or light eyes.

Health should always, always come before looks.


by Blitzen on 03 January 2008 - 19:01

WiscTiger you have taken what I posted out of context. I never suggested that all coats  should be removed from the gene pool and removing all carriers would not be a very prudent move by anyone's standards.  I said IF the SV's goal is to elminate coats from their gene pool, the DNA test is the only way to go. I have to assume that is their goal since over the years they have eliminated longcoats and long stockhairs from being eligible for a Koer.   According to the SV rules, no one is supposed to breed a dog without a Koer, right?  Why else would they have done that if not to prevent coats from being bred?

If I were a GSD breeder, I would be happy to have a DNA test that would tell me early on which of my puppies are or are not coats. I know some are using that test for GSD's and other eligible breeds as they do not keep the longcoats for breeding or show. They are placed as companion dogs.


by FionaDunne on 03 January 2008 - 20:01

Do some research and look at the number of GREAT GSD's produce LC's.  There should be more effort into finding out MegaE carriers, lines that are producing dogs with EPI, is there really a genetic link to bloat.

I don't recall typing that there weren't any good or even great GSD's who have produced long coats.  Certainly there have been and still are.  Do go back and re-read.  What I said was that the coated pups from those breedings should be spayed/neutered and not bred.  Period.  The LC is a fault.  Going by what you say above we should "overlook" that issue?   Take a good look at the health issues that plague, among others, the AmBred lines - weak nerves, weak conformation, bad temperaments, major health issues.  The list goes on.  It all started somewhere.  All one needs to do is "overlook" the fault and watch the snowball roll.  Just as an FYI, I've done a lot of research, thank you.

Is there some reason that you think that efforts into finding and eliminating the carriers of MegaE, EPI, HD or any other genetic issues through DNA or other means can't be accomplished alongside the breeding of dogs without a coat fault? 

 I don't say intentionally bred LC's but I believe the SV is smart enough not to eliminate dogs that produce some LC's from the breeding pool. 

I don't see where anyone even suggested that the SV would eliminate dogs that produce some LC's.  The LC offspring should not be bred.  With selective breeding and testing that fault, too, could be eliminated - although it would take many, many years and scrupulously honest breeders.  Few and far between anymore. You're never going to have the "perfect" dog, but why breed a dog knowing they have faults right out of the gate? 
 

Would you want to eliminate every dog who produces pups that have a white spot or light eyes.

Again...they are faults.  That doesn't mean eliminate the dog that produced them.  It means pay closer attention to the breeding selection and, should the pups have those faults in excess of what the breed standard allows for, and you can't find a better dog or bitch to help correct the problem, don't breed them again and don't breed the pups.  The goal is to improve the breed, not "excuse" faults and try to justify it. 
 

Health should always, always come before looks.

I agree.  And there are many, many dogs out there who are healthy and sound (physically, nerves, temperament) and produce healthy and sound (physically, nerves, temperament) without producing the faults above.  Those are the dogs that should be bred.


by WiscTiger on 03 January 2008 - 21:01

Blitzen, I was hoping you wern't suggesting that every carrier be taken out of the gene pool, that would just be a train wreck with the GSD standing on the track.


by crhuerta on 03 January 2008 - 22:01

Rockinrkranch,

From looking at your pictures,....my personal opinion is.....this is a very pretty long stock coated puppy.

Best of luck,

Robin


by Blitzen on 03 January 2008 - 23:01

No, I was not suggesting that, WiscTiger.


by JudyK on 04 January 2008 - 00:01

Is this pup much smaller than the littermates?

Judy


by Louise M. Penery on 04 January 2008 - 00:01

JudyK: Is this pup much smaller than the littermates?

Aha, my thoughts exactly!  The "look" through the face is suspiciously like that a pituitary dwarf.....

If the size is normal, nothing to worry about.






 


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