Equivalent working titles? - Page 4

I certaintly wouldn´t hesitate to get a pup from a servicedog, not a  dog competing in tracking or search either, as long as I can meet the dog and know about the quality of the rest of the littermates. Many good dogs would be disqualified for breeding if SCH or another bitingsport was the only thing to justify a breeding. Most policedogs are better than the general SCH dog, but maybe not in US.

Tighe - have YOU ever put a CDX on a dog. How about a UD or UDX or even a UDT. T= tracking. As to tracking AKC has 4 levels much longer and some of them ( versatility tracking wh/ is urban tracking) much more difficult than schutzhund tracking. UDs require scent discrimination, directed jumping and retrieves and ........yada yada yada

Ummm....what does this have to do with comparing a CDX title with a SchH title??  A CDX is not a UD and gee, when I last checked - there is no tracking in a CDX title!  The original statement was An AKC CDX degree, with 3 consecutive successful legs scoring 195 or higher would mean more to me than a barely passing Schutzhund degree.  If you want to add on tracking titles etc... then you have a dog with more than a CDX don't you?

tighe, thats a closed-minded statement. My UD bitch (who I cannot breed due to HD, btw) is also PP trained. And if she didn't have a bum hip, damn right I would've bred her.  She has super high drive, serious bitework, excellent structure, and I'll tell you that damn UD was much harder than my other bitch's SchH1 and koer.

TIG, read my answer again.  I think you missed parts and ignored other parts.

" I would not to a service dog.  I have interacted with too many service dogs to consider that.  Of course there are exceptions to every rule and there may be a service dog that could change my mind....    The ADA does not require "certification" or "license" of service dogs.  Some groups do "certify" but the validity of the certification is only as good as the group or trainer doing it.  That is part of the reason for my answer."

Trafalgar - then compare apples to apples - a SchH score to a SchH score not a CDX title to a SchH title.

In AKC obedience there are people who compete for high scores and then there are those that simply compete to title or the love of accomplishment.  I don't think one dog is any better than another in that respect.  If my score is 180 and my competitor is 196 does that make their dog better than mine?  What if mine is 13 months old and theirs is 6 years old?  This probably holds true in SchH as well (I've never SchH titled a dog....yet ;-) 

An excellent score in Obedience is wonderful - but what is the difference between a Golden with a 198 and a GSD with a 198?  Don't I want a Germand Shepherd?  Could the Golden with the 198 even get a SchH title? 

Sorry, I still believe in SchH as a breed worthy test.  Even though I do competitive obedience and value it - but when looking for my next puppy....

Thumbs up to you K9Mom. 

The pressure changes when you are out in the dark, uneven terrain, lots of cover for the armed bad guy and YOU and YOUR dog are responsible not only for your safety but that of your cover officers as well. 

Also a lot of schutzhund dogs that I know of don't have the nerves to be able to work a drug search along side the interstate with cars and semis whizzing by either, not to mention searching through the distraction of the crazy cat lady house that happens to be 95+ degrees inside and the search ends up going on for 30 minutes or so.

A side note police dogs in Germany ARE considered eligible for breed survey, and the majority of those are certified by the State certification authorities so how come the same is not reciprocated here?

As others have said it comes down to what the individual dog brings to the table and which partner you are pairing it with.  Not all dogs from any venue are blanket breed worthy, but don't throw out the baby with the bath water either.  (yes I do believe schutzhund, ring, and KNPV are valuable tools for breeders looking to produce true working dogs that go to the street and a lot of vendor dogs are pre-titled dogs but again don't be venue blind)

Stormfronts Brawson. Sch3 working K9 and heavily bred for many years. Nuff said,.

OK, you all know I had to jump in on this one! 

Now, just as there are dog of various work ethic so are there levels of people who call themselves trainers. Let me start by saying I have participated in Sch. for many years. and am a sar handler .

Most of you know my credentials so I will not bore you or try to impress you. The facts are this,,,,,,Sch. is a test of courage, work ethic and and control. I hope I have covered it correctly. 

 Urban sar. (as in building collapses, explosions etc.)

and wilderness sar test a dogs :

stamina: The ability to work hours upon hours in the worst conditions

courage: ability to work among smoldering ruins, (the World Trade Center/Pentagon/ LA earthquake, large heavy equipment etc)

agility: walk across an i beam, climb a ladder

control:The ability to direct a dog by voice and hand signals across a scene of nails, broken glass and twisted metal. Can we say tornado, earthquake?

confidence: Must have to do all the above.

proper structure: Without this a dog can not owrk in sar, the demans on his/her body are too overwhelming.

If a dog possessed the above by proof of accredited certifcation. LE, Homeland security, state or federal agency and had hips and elbows that were approved for breeding and had a good pedigree : I for one would have no hesitiation in breeding to this dog.

The German Shepherd was bred to work....the sport is great but it is a patterened event. Work folks. work!!!that is what the German Shepherd was bred to do as well as be protective and a great family member.

Every time we go out the door we put our life ( and dogs) in danger for others. It is not glamerous walking among the ruins looking for signs of life or human remains. There are less than approx. 100 dogs in this country certified advanced usar. What better tribute to our wonderful breed? This is just one example of a German Shepherd as it was meant to be.

ok, off my soap box for now

Sarah and K-9's

 Tango, Kaylee andSzara