Help!! my 6 moth old got his hip x-rays back - Page 4

4pack:  Just for your info, the vet gave me a long vest to use when I assisted with the x-ray. (lead?).  I did not have any more exposed parts of my body than he did or his assistant did.  Maybe some do not have the extra vests to give for owner assisting or maybe it would cost them more for some kind of insurance coverage if they allowed that sort of thing.  I don't know.

Do Right says: 

<<I believe what I state above to be true.  That there are many OFA certified dogs "out there" that actually are Mild HD, and because they are being certified as "fair", they are being used for breeding as if they are normal.

I have stated this on other threads but no one seems disturbed about it.  Keep in mind that this is coming from a person who only has males that are certified as "fair", though my females are "good".

Anyway:

You are a highly respected "advisor" on this board and if YOU come out and make the statement that yes, there are "fair" certifed dogs that actually are HD, then many will listen.  If I repeat it, no one listens.

If you do not want to make a statement either way, I am right or I am wrong, then I will understand.  I know that such a statement from you would cause several problems.>>>

I am never hesitant to state my educated opinion - things that I have seen for myself that is.  I have personally known 12 dogs who went OFA Excellent.  Two of my own - both sedated.  Ten others - not sedated.  I do not know if those dogs would have gone Excellent had they been sedated or not - all I know is their hips looks super, tight and perfect and they went Excellent.  My two dogs' hips looked super tight and perfect and they were sedated.   As a breeder and someone who raises her own puppies to titles, works my own and x-rays all pups for prelims then adult - I feel more comfortable in my own program, with my dogs sedated - because I KNOW that the hips are what you see.  There is no false tightening/pulling because the dog is sedated.  If there is laxity it could be normal in a young pup, and problematic in an older dog.  I don't want to  hide anything by not sedating my dog - because I want to know what they really are.  If they are really Excellent, because the dog was sedated and not pulling against the unnatural restraint, then I'm thrilled.  If they are Good I'm also thrilled.  If they are Fair because of laxity I would hope that the hips would tighten up with age, not because the dog is tightening up on his own during x-rays.  If there is any structural/bony formation deficit, then it will be there sedation or not.

That's my take on it.  I don't have any other opinion about if OFA is passing HD dogs because of no sedation - I only know that MY dogs are sedated and I feel that the ratings MY DOGS get are accurate.  That's why it is so very important to have straight positioning - crooked positioning will also scew the picture - one hip may look super and the other not so hot - when both hips may actually be less than super but better than not so hot.  crooked/twisted positioning tells you nothing except that you can't tell for sure if the hips are bad or if they look good but really aren't.  I hate wondering, so I hate when I see crooked positioning, and I hate even more when the vet tells the worried owner that the hips are bad, when with proper positioning the picture might be completely different.

molly

There is no false tightening/pulling because the dog is sedated.

excuse me, this should have read "there is no false tightening/pulling because the dog is NOT sedated -

Your correction really confused me.  Thought I had it until that.  Sorry.

I have confused myself too - sorry.

molly

OFA asks on it's form if the dog was sedated for the x-ray of it is was taken without sedation.  So...does OFA 'rate' the hips differently based on this?

One could argue that a dog that is under anesthetic is 'easier' to manipulate, and therefore easier for a vet to position the hips so that they look better than they actually are.  

The vet I go to for x-rays  is a highly repsected specialist in taking the x-rays.  He is used by breeders across Canada AND the U.S.  He will tell you what to expect for a rating and is never wrong.  He knows ALL the x-raying bodies out there and has done his own studies and kept his own records.  He will NOT recommend ANY certifying body (he used to) that certifies at a year of age.  His experience shows/tell him that there is no consistency in the hips at this age and he has seen TOO many dogs hips change and thus ratings.  He sees no difference though from 18 months and on. He has been called as a witness on numerous occasions for OFA.  

He would agree with Molly in that it is important for a dog to be relaxed for an accurate hip x-ray/reading BUT, he is willing to do an x-ray without sedation IF the dog is comfortable and relaxed. I always leave it up to him with my dogs. He has done many dogs without sedation NO problem. 

OFA 'ratings' are only useful when the person/breeder is truthful. How does a veternarian KNOW that the dog he x-rays and sent x-rays away for IS the actual dog on the paperwork?  AKC does not require any kind of identification on puppies/dogs.  You can take any dog to get their hips/elbows certified and how would the vet know it is the actual dog that you are giving showing papers for?  In Canada our dogs MUST have a tatoo or microchip.  When I take a dog to be x-rayed, my vet checks the paperwork (registration I give him) and makes sure the tatoo on the paper is the tatoo on the dog.  They then must also submit an x-ray WITH the tatoo number/identification on it. 

When I first started out with american lines, I was 'taught/told' how to 'beat the system. I COULD NOT believe it!!!  Some breeders have actually figured out how to take a different dog in for an x-ray than the paperwork shows and/or which vet to go to for the x-ray as they will NOT check the paperwork etc. I was disgusted.  What is the point to this and WHO are you kidding?  I was also told which vets (in the U.S) would do some surgery on dogs to 'correct' things so that it would do better in the showring.  Unbelievable.   I guess there will always be ways for the unscrupulous to cheat the system ........

OFA requires AKC or other registration #, AND permanent ID such as tattoo or microchip number, to be printed ON the x-ray itself (in the picture, not sticker stuck on the film).  Still there will always be cheaters, for sure.

molly