Training a 'Hard' Pup - Page 4

I've been looking for a training class I can take Star to to get some socialization and some training with the distraction of other dogs around. So, I drove 40 min. to a local trainer to observe the classes, without my dogs. I was told on the phone they use gentle methods, lots of positive reinforcement and motivation. They don't even use choke chains, but flat collars or haltis and gentle leaders, though I did see one dog with a tubular fabric choker.

In the Level 2 beginners class, there was a lady who was having trouble getting her Jack Russell to do a down. He kept following the hand with the treat in it. Finally, one of the assitant trainers stepped in...literally! She put her foot on his halti, and held his head down. He braced his paws and resisted her for a good 2 minutes before finally caving in. I was NOT impressed! After that, she switched the leash to his collar, so she could get his head down more easily. I really don't understand why, if you're going to do it that way, that you don't gently take the dog's paws in your hand, and get it to go down that way. Seems better than fighting with it for 2 whole minutes!

I was thinking tonight of my late female, Tasha, the one really hard GSD I've owned. I'm a bit embarrassed at this story, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

It was October, and I'd taken her out in the canoe. Though the air was warm, the water was very cold. As we came into the dock, she got ready to jump when we were still 10 feet out. I knew if she tried to do it, we'd both wind up in the water. She was too far away for me to grab her leash, so I ordered her to lie down, and when she didn't respond, whacked her with the paddle. It made not the sightest impression on her. I whacked her a bit harder. Same result. She was going to jump to that dock, come hell or high water.

I whacked her a third time, putting even more muscle into it. . A big chunk split off the paddle blade, but this time, I got her attention, and she lay down, and allowed me to bring the canoe safely into the dock. Next time I went paddling with her, I made sure I had two leashes joined together, and tied to the canoe seat, so she couldn't get out of my reach again.

I used to joke I had to hit this dog over the head with a 2x4, just to get her attention. It wasn't far off the mark, either! Most people who have soft dogs just don't understand that what may verge on abuse for one dog will hardly even be felt by another. Also, the amount of force depends very much on the situation, and this was a potentially life-threatening situation. I don't want anyone thinking we always had to use harsh methods on her, far fromit! When really motivated by treats, toys, etc. and focused on her handler, this dog would respond to a faint whisper or a hand signal. It was getting that focus that presented the problem!

sunsilver -- .... sometimes prudence is the better part of valor ! and no matter how well trained our dogs are .. they are not automaton robots ... better than being in the water  ! ... if you find yourself  in a situation like that again -- tanother tactic/ option : you can break the behavior of your dog by simply throwing somehting at it .. use your shoe .. use a book anything at hand [ for you others .. just an offshoot of the throw chain technique] --- you may hit or throw the object in proximity .. just anything to break your dogs attending to something else .. a startle is non abusive and , breaks the dogs current behavior and gives you a moment so the two of you can reconnect !

ALPHAPUP, if htting here with a paddle didn't get her attention, I don't see how a throw chain or a shoe would have made a difference! I occasionally did use a throw chain (or whatever other object was handy!) to get her attention, and we also worked a lot on 'look at me'! Hold a treat in your hand, say 'look at me!' and when she does, say "Nice look!' and give her the treat. Roger refined this even more by making her look at other people who were present before she got the goodie, and she picked that up really quickly, too. She was a smart dog, but always trying to get her own way, and you had to work hard to keep one jump ahead of her.

sunsilver -- it was a only single suggestion as another technique.-- .. and on others dogs for people reading the post it may have worked  with their dog . .. additionally one stimulus may not always brake a behavior of a dog .. but another stimulus .. may well indeed. even more so if the dog looks at it as an aversive to begin with from a previuos experience. the  surprise in and of itself .. the startle is what we aim for -- another suggestion .. i never never ask my dogs for attention ... i condition them that it is their responsibility to  be giving me the mindfiulness. that is not a critism of your comment .. just another suggestion -- because if your dog is mindul / attending to you .. not  merely you asking it for attention then it it's thoughts gon't tend to go other places .. i kep in mind .. where the eyes go .. so do thier thoughts.