Baltimore K9 Video...Cruelty or Acceptable? - Page 4

I don't think that dog was out of control at all. Not in an aggressive way.He was amped and with the 2 inches of line and a locked arm at the end of his neck, he redirected his frustration. Dumb ass handler boy, just happened to be the closest/only thing to redirect to. I bet those chicken peck bites didn't even leave a damn mark. I'd like to see him try that submissive crap with my dog in about another year. Fucking Buffoon!

Like many others already said, if the dog was handler aggressive he would have took chunks out of the handler and in better places than his hands. My dogs bite my hands in excitement all of the time, if I'm too slow, I get nailed. Don't take it personal, like the dog is really trying to take you on. If a dog is serious, he is going to come at you anywhere but your hands.

That dog had no idea why the handler was treating him that way and learned nothing from any of it. That wasn't training, that was stupid and what stupid does, when all else fails.

Workingdawg---It is nice to see that you have some knowlege and know what you are talking about ( Try to be easy on us LE though huh?)

It is simply a matter of the dog choosing to perform a behavior rather than being forced to. I like to use the analogy of a piece of chocolate cake. Just about everyone loves chocolate cake right? How much would you like that cake if someone was forcing it down your throat?

I am looking for a collar and have decided on Tri-Tronics, I will shoot you an e-mail.

It really doesn't matter what the past or history of this team is. It does not take a rocket scientist to see this is bad training and unneccissary. The dog is a noce dog from what I see and could be cleaned up in a short amount of time in the right hands.

DR--In reference to your example; if a dog fights that hard about going into a crate I would say something or someone did something very negative that the dog associates with the crate. Crate training is about as basic as it gets.

What do you think would have happened if you threw a hotdog or ball into the crate instead of forcing the issue into a fight that you "had to win" to avoid a "lifelong problem"?

If nothing, what would have happened if you didn't force the issue, and didn't feed the dog that night? Do you think she would have gone in for the hotdog then? If not how about the 2nd day of not eating?

getarealdog..i have my opinion and you have yours.  How many times do I have to say that I don't think I have enough history and since the video was made up of short clips; have enough info to pass judgement.  it is so easy to take video and pick and choose what to show to make a point. The drive-by major news people do it every day.  I don't mind you trying to change my mind but so far no one has. If you have proven news about this then let me know but otherwise it will be hard to conveince me.

PS...my first reaction was the same as most of you but after thinking about it I started questioning what i was seeing.

Getarealdog...I agree 100% with your comments and basically posted it as a  What Not to do.

There is No training going on here.

Ive seen a better video of French special forces using Mals,  a dog is in high drive and grabs handlers hand in an exercise. Handler corrects the dog but understands that the dog is in drive.  Minor correction,  then on to something else. None of the dominance crap when the dog is merely in drive as you pointed out so well.

Worlds apart in training. This Baltimore cop hasnt a clue, nor does the  "trainer" he gets advice from in the background, imo.

For one thing, you must be smarter then the dog. I have a Mal that is handler hard, I have found ways to manipulate him in to doing what I want him to do. Aggression will bring aggression. I guess, I would also ask, how old is this dog? Mal's are not shepherds.

IMO ..about 80% of those objecting and telling everyone how sorry this officier is as a dog trainer could not control this dog yourselves.

First, I do like this dog and have stated so that with good training he will be a good one.

Second, he is out of control on wanting to bite, he is trying to take cheap bites.  I have had dogs like this and helped trained several that wanted to take "cheap' bites so i  know this dog could be trained properly.

Third, we don't know the expereince level, who the person giving advise was, maybe it was his boss telling him what to do.  Why was he frustrated? Maybe his boss was causing it? What if the dog had already bit someone and he was told either get him under control or we are putting him down? He could have been desperate to train and save the dog.  I myself have done a few alpha rolls in my life but have never slammed a dog to the ground, this looked rough but he did not hurt the dog.  What if the person putting these clips together decided not to put in the last one where the dog responded and quit the over zealous lunging to get a bite?

Try using your brains instead of your emotions for a change!

DR it seems that you keep trying to justify this behaviour in the video. you keep saying we don't know the "history". 

It does not matter what the history is.      this type of "training" is not acceptable. 

I live in Baltimore and am not at suprised to see this video.  The training and the dogs have for me always left a little more to be desired.  Sure this dog seems to be sharp.  But the timing of the correction is so behind that it is not possible for the dog to fully understand the reprimand.  Also there is no praise for when the dog is acting in the desired way.  All they are training the dog to do is accept the behavior of the handler, building up a tolerance.

Okay everyone, all have shared opinions and here is mine. What I see is a very spirited young dog who is probably an excellent candidate for the tasks chosen for him being "trained" using very questionable "techniques". I also see some coarse amateur handling by someone who is obviuosly (a) not a dog person and (b) does not possess the skills to make either a firm correction or a positive correction. From the chatter in the background, there are other rank amateurs in the audience.

And gee, what is the big deal about recieving an occassional nip from your own dog who is locked in drive and extremely focused? What civil-drive dog does not do this occassionally when it is past the fight or flee decision and has chosen to fight? Gee, these "handler" types need to develop some toughness of their own and learn to take the occassional bite and keep a smile on their face. I cannot blame the dog here, and must place the blame where it lies-with amateur dog handlers who happen to be sworn policemen. Probably amateur marksmen as well, but I digress.

Most of the K9 "handlers" that I see are the customary pot-bellied deputies with NO training for proper dog handling, and seriously lacking as well in the thoroughness in their law enforcement training. There are successful K9 training and handling personnel in a few police departments, and I have seen some very nice relationships of handler and dog when this was the norm, and not the exception.

I think the video has a place in the "Worst Examples Of Dog Training" archives. In fairness, for all we know this dog is not with his original trainer/handler and was being forced to bond with someone who is not qualified to be this dog's partner. And this new bonding takes much time for many dogs. This dog needs to be removed from his doofus "handler" and background "trainers" and given to someone who can interpret and understand this dog's drive and use the proper corrective and constructive measures to help this dog be all that he can be. I have some deeply-rooted prejudice here, as I am always on the dog's side first until I am proven wrong.

Regards,

Bob-O