I need advice - Page 4

To Flipfinish And what is your background as oposed to Schtuzhund..I have read some of your posts as well and frankly your lack if knowledge amazes me...Just because a dog will do protection or growl does not mean it is a nerve issue if the threat is there...my dog is as confidant as any I have ever owned can be with toddlers, strangers etc but if he feels he needs to pprotect  me he sure will...maybe you should hang around a Schutzhund club and learn something especially how to read dogs...a nervy dog is fearful of everyone period.. growls out of fear not a defense threat .big difference..

Marlene

Shandra, yes it is extremely possible he was trained in commands other then English.  that odes not mean he will listen much better until you have control and he feels secure.  You've had some very good advice here.

however, i wouldn't count on him having much training from the sounds of it.  :)

i know that time and money are an issue, but i'd really consider contacting a trainer/behaviorist sooner rather than later.

Shandra please listen to Don's advice. 

It sounds like you want to "win" in this situation.  The prize being a well mannered dog that you did not give up on.  That is a noble goal but just what if you "lose"?  What will this loss cost you?  It's not worth the gamble you are taking.  The right dog IS out there for you.  Even though you do not want to "give up" on this one sometimes that is the best decision to make for all concerned.  You have to put away your desire to show that you can make this work and take into account the fact that your son is being put into a dangerous situation.  Do you really want to continue on this way?  Do you really want to have to monitor this and constantly keep an eye out for what might happen?  Wouldn't your life, your son's life and the dog's life be allot easier if he was to be re-homed with a compatible person and you and your son found a dog that was compatible for you? 

I do not want to sound harsh.  I'm so sorry for the loss of your father.  You've been through allot.  Please take a hard look at the advice people have given you here.  Take care of yourself and your son.  My prayers are with you.

Okay, no expert here but I think there is one thing everyone has overlooked.  The son is not really a "child" in the dog's eyes, he's past adolesence and in the animal world that's an adult.  Animals don't know about "voting age and drinking age" :)  I have a nephew who is ADHD and has always been very difficult so I'm no stranger to the disorder nor GSDs.  I don't know the size or demeanor of this young man but we're not talking a defenseless 2 year old.  I would have to admit (although now adults) I would have always put my children before any dog and though a full grown GSD can inflict serious damage on an adult it sounds to me like she is doing everything to keep this from happening.  ADHD children are not stupid, as a matter of fact they're usually above average in intellegence. Sounds to me like the dog has issues with men, not children was my whole point.

Also, it's very natural after a big loss like that of your father, to try to hold on to everything else that you can, to avoid experiencing another loss. Know that your judgement could be clouded by grief. Think it through, I'm sure you'll make the decision that will be best for you, your son, and Tino. My deepest sympathy to you in the loss of your father. God bless you. jo

If you are going to ignore the safety issue posts and keep the dog anyway... Buy a kennel with a top and leave the dog in it when your son is around. The dog will just have to stay out/in a crate/ or kennel when your son is home. Sounds like your son is away some and you can bring your dog inside then. If he was an outside dog before, which sounds like it with the potty training issues and wrecking of the house, he wont mind being kenneled part time. The best way to work on house issues is when you are present, to watch the dogs every move anyway. Best done with you home alone, undistracted  and quiet.

I have kids galore around daily and dogs that are not house dogs or kid appropriate dogs. They are kennel dogs. You may have to go this rout if you keep the dog, while you seek a trainer for his behavior/training issues. Don't force the dog to interact or be near your son, when obviously he does not want to do so and you have no way of knowing his breaking point. Your sons safety isn't worth finding out!

I do not have first experience with your sons disorder, so at the risk of sounding stupid I'm going to throw an idea out but leave it to the experts to decide if its a good one or not.  I was wondering if it might help if every day you, your son & the dog start taking long brisk walks together.  I think this kind of activity helps develop good strong bonds between human & dog.  If your son holds the leash it would also help establish him as a leader to the dog too. 

Sparrow,

I don't think anyone here implied that people who suffer from ADHD are stupid. They are far from incapable. I would not give up my experience working with these kids for anything. The combination of ADHD and ODD is very difficult to manage. It is difficult on everyone involved and involves specfic behavioral technuiqes to  manage behavior and facilitate learning. I don't know Shandra's son, their treatment and behavior plan, or life style. My advice, and I believe others, is based on worst case scenario and the likely hood it may happen. 

You do bring up valid points about the age of the boy and the possibility some of the dogs issues are gender related. I think the main point most of us are trying to convey is from the information provided the percentage of success to the percentage of a bad occurance is not one worth taking.

Sue,

As always your advice is on point. Excercise is sometimes the best medicine. I used to run with my kids around the whole school 3 times a day.

Shandra,

I feel for you and wish you, your son, and your dog the best. If I had a dog that would work for you, I would give it to you. If you lived near me I would come over and help you for free. Kalibeck brings up some good points as well.

You will work it out one way or the other.

Take care

Thank you all for the excellent advice, It has given me a lot to consider. Tino does seem to have an issue with males to a degree, females he is ok with or more trusting of. I think the stumbling block showed intitially when my son first came in  with tino here. He burst thru the door without warning, he had just been dropped off and I didnt know he was home yet, Tino came directly to my side and barked and Justin showed immediate fear then that tough guy exterior. Justin is small for his age, barely weighing in at 105 lbs.  Tino acts more like he doesnt trust Justin than anything else, he is very watchful of all of justins motions. I have had Tino on the leash in the livingroom and allowed my son to throw the toy for him. Tino will willingly go to him when called and shown the toy, sit on command and wait for Justin to throw the ball. He never brings it back to me or Justin, he prefers to take it to his "Spot", my side of the couch where he usually stays when he is in the house. I can take the toy from him without issue or incident.

I am taking Tino to an obedience trainer for evaluation next Sunday, I am not sure how far her skills go other than she does teach obedience classes. She also works for the Police Deptartment in evaluating dogs for adoptability. I am doing a web search for trainers/behaviourists reasonably close ( within 100 or so miles) of me.

PoliceMom, I appreciate your comments. The reason for not giving up are not selfish on my part. I totally love this dog and am worried about where he will go if I have to rehome him. If I were to find a home that was better suited to him, where he would receive the love and attention that he adores, that would be a serious consideration. Tino loves the companionship and attention he receives and I would hate for him to be returned to the majority of time being kenneled, altho that is probably what he is used to. I just want him to have a better life than he has been given ( as far as I can tell) so far. I dont mean the basics such as food, water and shelter but love and nurturing. I may be a n00b in a lot of ways, but I see real potential in Tino to become an excellent companion, protective and affectionate. I think he just needs to be better directed. I guess that is just the "MOM" in me lol

4pack, I am not ignoring any of the advice and I take the safety issue very seriously. I have a large backyard that is fenced and seperate from the front yard, with an electric fence seperating the 2 on both sides and completely surrounding the yard. I am keeping Justin and Tino seperated unless Tino is on a leash and then he is kept close at my side.

Therese