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by Mystere on 30 July 2009 - 21:07
For accuracy's sake, let me correct Yellowrose's statement concerning what "I" said in the prior thread. I did not say ANYTHING about whether the bitch was ever titled, or not knowing. Period.
I have never seen, OR HEARD OF, a blue or liver dog being trialed, titled or entering any major competition. I am sure that had there been one, we'd have all at least heard about it long ago.
I have never seen, OR HEARD OF, a blue or liver dog being trialed, titled or entering any major competition. I am sure that had there been one, we'd have all at least heard about it long ago.
by steve1 on 30 July 2009 - 21:07
Y.R
Why are you being funny and you are, I did not say i have been to trials and competitions in Germany i have not, If you think i will agree with what is said just because you say it you think wrongly
i say what i see and where i see it and nothing else, End of subject you think what you will
Steve
Why are you being funny and you are, I did not say i have been to trials and competitions in Germany i have not, If you think i will agree with what is said just because you say it you think wrongly
i say what i see and where i see it and nothing else, End of subject you think what you will
Steve
by mahon on 31 July 2009 - 08:07
Clipped from previous thread. by mahon
Liver sables anyone?
by Mystere on 12 March 2009 - 19:03
Mystere
Posts: 2414
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 03:07 pm
Ditto. Furthermore, I have always maintained that if a blue or liver puppy in a litter I was interested in turned out to be the one that showed me it was what I was looking for, I'd still be inclined to take, train and title that puppy. I simply would never breed it...and probably would be wary of breeding to or from littermates.
This all explains a beautiful "Irish setter red" gsd bitch I saw the first time I went out to a schutzhund club. That bitch had the most wonderful temperament. After working in protection, she was loose, playing with a bumper and keeping an eye on the 2 or 3 yo and infant kids of the helper. I was standing and watching. The baby started crying and the bitch trotted over. I realized that there was no way I could get to my car, so I stood still and hoped for the best. She dropped her bumper and went to the baby, sniffed and checked her over. She then went over to the older boy and gave him a once-over. Then, she looked at me. Went back and picked up her bumper. She planted herself, with bumper, between me and the kids. I was really impressed.
Later, and for a couple of years, I was always puzzled when I asked the guy who had owned the bitch about her. He always played dumb and acted like he had no clue what I was talking about. I learned later that he was only with that club because his home club had suspended him for his breeding practices. Now, I wonder if breeding livers was among them, as it took years for me to realize that the gsd whose color I had never seen before of since was a liver sable. She was probably from working lines, but, due to his playing stupid, I have no clue who was behind her and therefore may be carrying that color.
This should answer the question.
Liver sables anyone?
by Mystere on 12 March 2009 - 19:03
Mystere
Posts: 2414
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 03:07 pm
Ditto. Furthermore, I have always maintained that if a blue or liver puppy in a litter I was interested in turned out to be the one that showed me it was what I was looking for, I'd still be inclined to take, train and title that puppy. I simply would never breed it...and probably would be wary of breeding to or from littermates.
This all explains a beautiful "Irish setter red" gsd bitch I saw the first time I went out to a schutzhund club. That bitch had the most wonderful temperament. After working in protection, she was loose, playing with a bumper and keeping an eye on the 2 or 3 yo and infant kids of the helper. I was standing and watching. The baby started crying and the bitch trotted over. I realized that there was no way I could get to my car, so I stood still and hoped for the best. She dropped her bumper and went to the baby, sniffed and checked her over. She then went over to the older boy and gave him a once-over. Then, she looked at me. Went back and picked up her bumper. She planted herself, with bumper, between me and the kids. I was really impressed.
Later, and for a couple of years, I was always puzzled when I asked the guy who had owned the bitch about her. He always played dumb and acted like he had no clue what I was talking about. I learned later that he was only with that club because his home club had suspended him for his breeding practices. Now, I wonder if breeding livers was among them, as it took years for me to realize that the gsd whose color I had never seen before of since was a liver sable. She was probably from working lines, but, due to his playing stupid, I have no clue who was behind her and therefore may be carrying that color.
This should answer the question.
by mahon on 31 July 2009 - 09:07
Correction to Yellowrose,s post.
The litter consisted of 8 puppies born January 18,2008. 1 longcoat liver/sable male, 1 longcoat liver/tan male. 1 longcoat blk/red male. 2 blk/red males. 2 sable females and 1 sable male. The sable male is pictured above at 6 months of age.
Contrary to some breeder's belief I have not condemned any of the bloodlines that created this litter. And I am still an avid supporter of Timo vom Berrekasten progeny as well as Ulk and many others.
However I think it is only ethical for the S.V. and the AKC to require that known carriers of recessive genes have a registry and DNA testing as well as a listing that would be available to breeders of such recessive genes as well as any lethal recessive genes. This way progeny of a known carrier could be bred to non-carriers and eventually the recessive genes could be eliminated from the gene pool.
As it is now, you roll the dice each time you breed not haveing a clue as to the recessive genes that lerk below the surface. Relying on the breeders from several generations before to be honest and trust worthy to disclose information that is negative about his or her super stud dog that they have a spent thousands to train and campaign.
Several of the cattle breed registries have been doing this for many years I don't see why the SV or AKC can't find their way to do the same.
Just my thoughts, mahon
The litter consisted of 8 puppies born January 18,2008. 1 longcoat liver/sable male, 1 longcoat liver/tan male. 1 longcoat blk/red male. 2 blk/red males. 2 sable females and 1 sable male. The sable male is pictured above at 6 months of age.
Contrary to some breeder's belief I have not condemned any of the bloodlines that created this litter. And I am still an avid supporter of Timo vom Berrekasten progeny as well as Ulk and many others.
However I think it is only ethical for the S.V. and the AKC to require that known carriers of recessive genes have a registry and DNA testing as well as a listing that would be available to breeders of such recessive genes as well as any lethal recessive genes. This way progeny of a known carrier could be bred to non-carriers and eventually the recessive genes could be eliminated from the gene pool.
As it is now, you roll the dice each time you breed not haveing a clue as to the recessive genes that lerk below the surface. Relying on the breeders from several generations before to be honest and trust worthy to disclose information that is negative about his or her super stud dog that they have a spent thousands to train and campaign.
Several of the cattle breed registries have been doing this for many years I don't see why the SV or AKC can't find their way to do the same.
Just my thoughts, mahon
by july9000 on 01 August 2009 - 12:08
Just a question??
We we're making comparisons with the Long coats for the recessive gene..
Breeders have absolutly NO problem saying their stud or bitch is a Long coat carrier..If the liver/blue gene was not a problem..how come it is so hard to know they have a carrier and why breeders don't tell??
Well..because a LOT of breeders would not take the chance of breeding those dogs so they just hide it. Of course some breeders breed faults and don't care about it even asking HUGE amount for their different pups..And that is why we are still stuck with those problems folks!!..JMO
Julie
We we're making comparisons with the Long coats for the recessive gene..
Breeders have absolutly NO problem saying their stud or bitch is a Long coat carrier..If the liver/blue gene was not a problem..how come it is so hard to know they have a carrier and why breeders don't tell??
Well..because a LOT of breeders would not take the chance of breeding those dogs so they just hide it. Of course some breeders breed faults and don't care about it even asking HUGE amount for their different pups..And that is why we are still stuck with those problems folks!!..JMO
Julie
by apsllc on 01 August 2009 - 16:08
Good question, Julie. I think that in regards to the loncoats people don't have a problem with producing them because of all the talk of the SV going to allow them in a studbook.
Now, just how many people would suddenly be advertising their dogs as liver or blue carriers if the SV was going to allow them in the studbooks?
As our dear Max said, no good dog can be a bad color.
Now, just how many people would suddenly be advertising their dogs as liver or blue carriers if the SV was going to allow them in the studbooks?
As our dear Max said, no good dog can be a bad color.
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