A Monster: Elliot Rodger---Privileged, Young White Guy Killer Syndrome? - Page 3

Bee,

Well at least you didn't pull some obscure word out of the dictionary to toss around as if you had a brain.

Your insight is easily measured in the sources you've listed.

And your agenda is quite obvious, no surprise there.

It's your thread and you don't want to talk about it?

Musta run out of opinion based reading material.

 

Mindhunt,

forget the cops, where was his therapist and his parents in the years leading up to now, before he came of age?

Cops follow procedure and rules, they are not at fault here, but someone is.

 

All there is to consider here, are opinions.

I know I blame Nancy Lanza for being indulgent with her shooter son, Adam. Both Adam and Elliot, I have read were diagnosed with Asperger's and that would imply certain ongoing difficulties a parent would have to contend with, yet, there is not a one size answer to address an individuals disability of this nature. Both young, priviledged white men also played violent shooter games, which is of course, common for any number of normal, young men of today. I have no idea if Elliot's game obsession reached the level and indulgence Nancy provided to Adam. I just don't think so. Elliot actually was accepted into a college and was living as an independent. Adam never got to that point. Nancy provided Adam his weaponry as gifts. Elliot bought his own, legally.

I haven't seen or read any of the "Retribution" video or papers, myself, yet. So, I can't comment, except as to the bits mentioned in articles that I have read. I believe his parents were unawares of such evil planning until shortly before the rampage, and that is why they acted, desperately driving to find their son, not knowing if he had already begun his killing. Nancy, has no such excuse, in fact she encouraged shooting by equating it with a type of bonding with her physically untouchable son. And Adam repaid her by killing her, first.

So, bottomline, while there are similarities between these perpetrators of rampaging mass murder, I still feel I can blame Nancy Lanza for deadly indulgence, but am not prepared to lay the same pronouncement at the feet of Elliot's parents. Not yet, any way.  Natural born killers, both of them, it is a possibility, yes. I think people like that do exist. 

What to do about it. Hmm.

Natural born killers, what to do what to do.....

Perhaps we could locate that particular gene and not allow certain individuals to reproduce.

I don't think it is that simple, these natural born killers are not born marked with 666 birthmarks, like the movies. Perhaps we can get some kind of mental health and/or prescription alert that will trigger some other alert to not sell these individuals weapons. They wouldn't have to reveal the "why" for confidentialy reasons. Just make it a NO SALE allowed category. Don't have the kinks worked out because I just thought of it. Of course, that would not have mattered to Adam, he would still have been under the radar. Perhaps if Nancy knew she was breaking a law or something, if there was a Gun Violence Restraining Law to guide her, that might have made a difference.

And who would decide?

How could it be confidential?

You are still so hung up on guns, don't you realize that the weapon could be anything, from a car to fire and on and on, edged weapons are easier to get and just as deadly.

I would always debate nature verses nurture, or the other way around in the case of what you consider natural born killers.

Yet to be totally honest, I have known two individuals who always seemed to be cold without feelings or remorse and figured they had been born that way.

 

Who would decide? Mindhunt of course!  

If you read any of the opinions linked here, you might also remember when the mental institutions were shut down and the crazies were set loose. I suppose they were given meds, which they promptly threw in the sewer or something. They became each localities resident homeless. They are transient and dependent on shelters, soup kitchens and cardboard shanty towns created under out of the way highways. 

How about this one scenario. I will come up with others if necessary. Diligent parents know something is wrong with their child. Their other children are not like this problem child. They go for evaluations with experts. These experts prescribe a certain class of psychotropic drug that only someone who hallucinates would be taking. There could be laws that prohibit such mental cases who hallucinate from owning guns or any weapon for that matter. There would be a database of individuals who are on this drug, identified only by a tag of numbers and letters. This list of numbers would be searchable by the gun sellers when a purchase is being made. There is paper work and a waiting period already, yes? I really don't know how it works. Never been in a gun shop! If the seller gets a hit from this check list, it is a NO SALE.

Any denied individual should have an option to refute the denial. To prevent abuse of the system.

As to myself being "hung up on guns." That isn't exactly correct. I don't mind if you have your everyday revolver for your personal protection. I have an issue with the everyday person owning military style assault rifles and high capacity magazines. That kind of firepower does so much more damage as in death counts, than the machete weilding maniac. Any gun makes killing that much less personal because it can be accomplished at a distance. To use a knife to slice someone to ribbons is much more work, and not as successful if number of dead are the main goal. 

Also, the end game is suicide by the rampaging murderers. I don't think that stabbing oneself gets the job done like a bullet can.

Surprise, surprise that we might actually agree, some people are born to be bad. 

Me decide Beetree?  Oh hell no, I had a hard enough time with starting involuntary commitment proceedings on a few clients. It was entirely necessary but it still sucked.  I had to assess the determination behind the suicidal/homicidal ideation, the means, and the timetable.  It was not a responsibility I took lightly.  I sent them over to our psychiatric facility and there they get assessed again as a fail safe.  Elliot was not properly assessed by licensed clinician.  He was being seen by psychiatrists, physicians, and counselors/life coaches, none of whom are therapists.  Why his parents didn't get him seen by a competent psychologist is beyond me.  I am also very much against psychotropics.  As I have stated before, therapy is proven empirically to be most effective when compared to drugs alone.  Drugs with therapy with the client weaning off drugs as effective coping skills, positive behaviors, effective cognition, and emotional regulation all improve.  The goal is to teach the client to become their own therapist to deal effectively with anything life throws them.

My trauma group was able to obtain a copy of Elliot's manifesto, videos, and such to analyze as an exercise in ethics and treatment.  I just shared what some of what my group came up with.

As for guns and mental health.  That is a frightening slope in that the current state of mental health treatment sucks and stigma of mental health diagnoses is very much alive.  Who is to decide?  What diagnosis is considered dangerous?  Most schizophrenics are not dangerous (don't believe what you see on TV).  What about children diagnosed with ADD/ADHD (which is by far over diagnosed) who are interested in obtaining a handgun legally as an adult, what about learning disabilities like Dyslexia, eating disorders, complex bereavement, PTSD, just to name a few, none of which are dangerous. 

Who knows what the correct answers are in this case.  We can all speculate.  Hindsight is easy because one has more information than those at the time had.

mind as it's in your field you might be able to tell me the facts, from what i hear the guy who first "discovered" ADD/ADHD (if it is the same guy) has distanced himself completley from it. the over diagnosis and treatment with effectively laboratory grade speed is the oppositte of what he intended, any truth in this.

a lot of parents i see seem to be demanding a diagnosis of ADD/ADHD so they can get a script and gain control back over their kids - the parents are clearly the ones driving the bandwagon. if this pediatrician (a requirement here) won't diagnose it they keep shopping until they find one that will. 

also do you think life is overtaking (in the west) the human capacity to keep up. and meds will soon not be an option but necessary coping mechanism - have no idea what i am talking about, i just think the wheels are flying all off over due mainly to the increasing hectic nature of life and these incidents are the evidence.

 

 

Bee,

Sounds like you've got it all figured out, we'll let Mindhunt decide.

Let's start with you.

Mindhunt you get to evaluate Bee first, should she be denyed her constitutional right to bear arms?

Should she be commited?

Or do you think med's would keep her in line?

Can she be trusted to walk the streets unsupervized?

Oh !

And who's gonna pay for all this evaluating, record keeping, and systems to connect all the dots, then possibly the court system and all the despute's?

Who's gonna protect the innocent and privacy?

What a bag of worms !!!

The experts Bee?

No offense Mindhunt but I see no experts in the field of mental health, it hasn't been that long ago they used electric shock and drilled holes in peoples skulls.

 

One very important note Bee about this,

( I don't mind if you have your everyday revolver for your personal protection.)

It's not up to you, and that's not the purpose of (right to bear arms), a concept you've never been able to grasp.

It's not about personal protection, it is about the protection of our country and all of our so called rights, it's about preserving freedom from opression.

Though we've let it happen anyway by not paying attention.

If you give the decision to the experts they will go broke, no one will go to them for fear of losing their rights, too much power in the wrong hands.

It should be obvious what happens when the wrong person has power over others, just look around.