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by PMWatch on 17 July 2013 - 12:07
I have to agree about the political agenda. A dog is wonderful, but I'm not giving up my guns for anything. It is always nice to have a back up plan.
by Hired Dog on 17 July 2013 - 12:07
Ibrahim..Its the mentality behind all the people you mentioned that causes them to commit violence against each other. The police here will tell you that personal safety is a personal responsibility and they are correct for the most part. After all, there are only so many of them and a huge population, they cant be everywhere and for the most part, they are there to "mop up" and then investigate.
I dont believe that a dog can stop a man on its own, a bullet center mass can and does. You seem like a very nice guy, but, until the rest of the world is like you, I will keep my gun and dog, just in case!
I dont believe that a dog can stop a man on its own, a bullet center mass can and does. You seem like a very nice guy, but, until the rest of the world is like you, I will keep my gun and dog, just in case!
by PMWatch on 17 July 2013 - 12:07
ziegenfarm,
I couldn't agree with you more!
I couldn't agree with you more!
by PMWatch on 17 July 2013 - 12:07
Hired Dog,
I feel the same. As the old saying goes, "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away". I like to make sure I have a second option incase something happens to my dog. Thank you Second Ammendment!
I feel the same. As the old saying goes, "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away". I like to make sure I have a second option incase something happens to my dog. Thank you Second Ammendment!
by samael28 on 17 July 2013 - 13:07
Ibrahim,
Well you claim we do not have the right to carry firearms as a nation based on your opinion. Well this nation was founded by civilians having firearms. If most Americans did not own or have to ability to obtain firearms while we were under the British tyranny we would never won the revolution. Therefore we would not be a country. This is why we have the right to bear arms and the right to form militia.
To use your example of no european nation needs firearms, why does the US is absurd. Look at the political unrest, genocide, religious prosecution, foreign invasions and occupation, etc..... that has happened throughout europe over the last century. They are far from perfect. I bet if every person was armed and knew how to use there firearms the governments and fascist groups, countries,political parties,etc... would think twice before taking advantage of those individuals whom are unarmed and cant defend themselves and there families.
The powerful will always prey on the weak, unprepared, and those with less resources. 99.9% of gun violence around the world through illegally obtained firearms. Be it stealing, smuggling, etc...... Most obtain them from old military cashs. These individuals prey upon those people whom are not capable of defending themselves. Whether it be man on man or a general planning genocide or hostile country take over it applies to both cases.
Most people of this nature are cowards. If they know you will put up a fight they leave you a lone. There for my dogs and my firearms are a deterrent but will be used if necessary. and my years in the military taught me one thing. No body messes with the quite guy with a big stick thats prepared to use it!!!!!!!!
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As far as you civilized world. show me a civilized country with 0% violent crime where the police are always there and prevent crimes instead of cleaning up after them.
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Show me a nation where the government is always fair to its people.
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Show me a place where noone takes advantage of the ignorant,less fortunate, weak, unprepared,etc......
When I find that place i will relinquish the right to defend myself and my keep. Until then dont threaten my property,family, dogs, or myself and you want get bitten or shot and killed.
Those who misuse money and power are the true evil not object in which is misused!!
Well you claim we do not have the right to carry firearms as a nation based on your opinion. Well this nation was founded by civilians having firearms. If most Americans did not own or have to ability to obtain firearms while we were under the British tyranny we would never won the revolution. Therefore we would not be a country. This is why we have the right to bear arms and the right to form militia.
To use your example of no european nation needs firearms, why does the US is absurd. Look at the political unrest, genocide, religious prosecution, foreign invasions and occupation, etc..... that has happened throughout europe over the last century. They are far from perfect. I bet if every person was armed and knew how to use there firearms the governments and fascist groups, countries,political parties,etc... would think twice before taking advantage of those individuals whom are unarmed and cant defend themselves and there families.
The powerful will always prey on the weak, unprepared, and those with less resources. 99.9% of gun violence around the world through illegally obtained firearms. Be it stealing, smuggling, etc...... Most obtain them from old military cashs. These individuals prey upon those people whom are not capable of defending themselves. Whether it be man on man or a general planning genocide or hostile country take over it applies to both cases.
Most people of this nature are cowards. If they know you will put up a fight they leave you a lone. There for my dogs and my firearms are a deterrent but will be used if necessary. and my years in the military taught me one thing. No body messes with the quite guy with a big stick thats prepared to use it!!!!!!!!
---------
As far as you civilized world. show me a civilized country with 0% violent crime where the police are always there and prevent crimes instead of cleaning up after them.
---------
Show me a nation where the government is always fair to its people.
---------
Show me a place where noone takes advantage of the ignorant,less fortunate, weak, unprepared,etc......
When I find that place i will relinquish the right to defend myself and my keep. Until then dont threaten my property,family, dogs, or myself and you want get bitten or shot and killed.
Those who misuse money and power are the true evil not object in which is misused!!
by PMWatch on 17 July 2013 - 13:07
Ibrahim,
If people didn't have guns, they would use something else as a weapon. Cane killed Abel with a rock in Biblical times, no gun in sight back then. Take China as a more recent example. They have had several issues concerning mass stabbing. Not as many people actually die, but that doesn't make the crime any less violent. People will ALWAYS fight each other. a Utopian society doesn't exist, nor will it ever.
If people didn't have guns, they would use something else as a weapon. Cane killed Abel with a rock in Biblical times, no gun in sight back then. Take China as a more recent example. They have had several issues concerning mass stabbing. Not as many people actually die, but that doesn't make the crime any less violent. People will ALWAYS fight each other. a Utopian society doesn't exist, nor will it ever.
by zdog on 17 July 2013 - 13:07
If shit hits the fan, i'd be doing everything I could do to make sure my dogs are safe anyway. I'd prefer they were behind me and my gun, though I'm sure they'd rather be out front.
as for the rest of the zimmerman and martin thing, nobody was there, nobody really knows what happened. SO much room to fill in the blanks with one's mind. I don't think either was acting very appropriately. Zimmerman to put them in that situation and Martin for ever stopping long enough to have a confrontation occur.
and I don't think it was political at all. Why do the rest of you? Because gun violence doesn't happen every day in this country? We sure don't hear about them all. Because a black kid was killed? Yeah, that happens every single day too. and we all know how the media just loves hispanics, give them all the air time they need :) Every time a crime is committed by or against a hispanic it hits national news with verocity LOL
I think it was just unusual that's why it was interesting to most. If this had been a hispanic guy trying to rob a black kid and killed him or for drugs or for gang related stuff, i doubt it would have made it past the local level of news. But it wasn't. It was a grown man with a history, supposedly acting in society's best interest who IMO got a little overzealous and made showed some very poor judgement against a minor who was doing nothing at first other than walking home with a bag of skittles and then at some point allowed a confrontation to occur.
So many holes to insert your own view and only two people know what happened and one is dead. Did Trayvon confront and attack Zimmerman first? Did Zimmerman, after obviously making Trayvon feel ver uncomfortable stalk him and confront him in which trayvon fought back, but didn't bring a gun to this gun fight? Did Zimmerman lose track of him only to stumble upon him later when Trayvon confronted him about stalking him? who got physical first?
While I think a person has a right to defend themselves with deadly force if necessary and they certainly don't need to sit in a truck and wait for crimes to be committed and wait for police, IF you're going to inject yourself into potentially dangerous situations and things go haywire , well you're kind of responsible. I would suspect in this same exact case if Martin would have shot Zimmerman he'd be found not guilty as well. I don't think it would be too hard to convince a jury after being stalked a good while and doing nothing wrong by a grown man in the dark by vehicle and by foot who ended up being in possession of a gun and only your side of the story to be told, that you were in fear of your life.
So, i think the possibilities and the holes that can be filled by one's own mind made this story national news. I don't think it had anything to do with anything political.
as for the rest of the zimmerman and martin thing, nobody was there, nobody really knows what happened. SO much room to fill in the blanks with one's mind. I don't think either was acting very appropriately. Zimmerman to put them in that situation and Martin for ever stopping long enough to have a confrontation occur.
and I don't think it was political at all. Why do the rest of you? Because gun violence doesn't happen every day in this country? We sure don't hear about them all. Because a black kid was killed? Yeah, that happens every single day too. and we all know how the media just loves hispanics, give them all the air time they need :) Every time a crime is committed by or against a hispanic it hits national news with verocity LOL
I think it was just unusual that's why it was interesting to most. If this had been a hispanic guy trying to rob a black kid and killed him or for drugs or for gang related stuff, i doubt it would have made it past the local level of news. But it wasn't. It was a grown man with a history, supposedly acting in society's best interest who IMO got a little overzealous and made showed some very poor judgement against a minor who was doing nothing at first other than walking home with a bag of skittles and then at some point allowed a confrontation to occur.
So many holes to insert your own view and only two people know what happened and one is dead. Did Trayvon confront and attack Zimmerman first? Did Zimmerman, after obviously making Trayvon feel ver uncomfortable stalk him and confront him in which trayvon fought back, but didn't bring a gun to this gun fight? Did Zimmerman lose track of him only to stumble upon him later when Trayvon confronted him about stalking him? who got physical first?
While I think a person has a right to defend themselves with deadly force if necessary and they certainly don't need to sit in a truck and wait for crimes to be committed and wait for police, IF you're going to inject yourself into potentially dangerous situations and things go haywire , well you're kind of responsible. I would suspect in this same exact case if Martin would have shot Zimmerman he'd be found not guilty as well. I don't think it would be too hard to convince a jury after being stalked a good while and doing nothing wrong by a grown man in the dark by vehicle and by foot who ended up being in possession of a gun and only your side of the story to be told, that you were in fear of your life.
So, i think the possibilities and the holes that can be filled by one's own mind made this story national news. I don't think it had anything to do with anything political.
by samael28 on 17 July 2013 - 14:07
Its political, when the president goes on tv injecting himself into the case by saying if he had a kid it would look like trayvon.
Or when rev al sharpton is leading campaigns and pressuring political figures to pursue civil justice through the DOJ after the man was found not guilty. simply because of the race of the interested parties.
Its political when there are riots both civil and uncivil throughout the nation most notably LA, New York, DC etc.... as an attempt to sway the minds of the public and the politicians to do something different after the outcome wasnt what the people liked. right or wrong.
It also is political when this is an incident used by politicians to build support for anti firearm laws.
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To stay on topic-
The same reasons this became a political issue with guns and race could have happened if it were a dog used. Many cities already band certain breeds of dogs. and you better bet GSDs are on them. As well as housing developments, HOAs, and counties. The man and the dog would have been blamed.
I agree with you zdog a lot was done here that noone will know and just as in any case and that both men acted inappropriately.
Or when rev al sharpton is leading campaigns and pressuring political figures to pursue civil justice through the DOJ after the man was found not guilty. simply because of the race of the interested parties.
Its political when there are riots both civil and uncivil throughout the nation most notably LA, New York, DC etc.... as an attempt to sway the minds of the public and the politicians to do something different after the outcome wasnt what the people liked. right or wrong.
It also is political when this is an incident used by politicians to build support for anti firearm laws.
---------------------------------
To stay on topic-
The same reasons this became a political issue with guns and race could have happened if it were a dog used. Many cities already band certain breeds of dogs. and you better bet GSDs are on them. As well as housing developments, HOAs, and counties. The man and the dog would have been blamed.
I agree with you zdog a lot was done here that noone will know and just as in any case and that both men acted inappropriately.
by VKGSDs on 17 July 2013 - 14:07
guns don't have to be used as lethal weapons???, they can be used to incapacitate as a first guess....or maybe not.
I don't own guns but have many, many friends that do (no problem with this) but they all tell me that you don't draw a gun unless you intend to fire it and you don't fire it unless you intend to kill. They are not used to incapacitate first, at least that is what I have been told by those that actually carry them for personal safety.
by zdog on 17 July 2013 - 15:07
I don't doubt that blowhards like sharpton and the rest used it for political gain, but I don't think the story itself was a nightly occurrence because it was political, I think it had interersting and unusual circumstances, lots of holes to fill with one's own personal interpretation and arrive at their own conclusion.,
I have seen a few times on Facebook a picture of Trayvon and A 17 year old white kid with the message about one was national nightly news and the other wasn't, what is the only difference. Trying . to somehow draw a connection between liberal media and minorities and black and white. When in fact the stories are totally different. Black kids are killed daily and never even make the local news so there goes that theory, but beyond that. One was killed by a black man in a robbery, sad and tragic for sure and unfortunately people being killed in robbery attempts are not all that uncommon or interesting to the public. I'd say that had more to do with it than anything, but i wasn't about to get into a debate about it.
I have seen a few times on Facebook a picture of Trayvon and A 17 year old white kid with the message about one was national nightly news and the other wasn't, what is the only difference. Trying . to somehow draw a connection between liberal media and minorities and black and white. When in fact the stories are totally different. Black kids are killed daily and never even make the local news so there goes that theory, but beyond that. One was killed by a black man in a robbery, sad and tragic for sure and unfortunately people being killed in robbery attempts are not all that uncommon or interesting to the public. I'd say that had more to do with it than anything, but i wasn't about to get into a debate about it.
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