Question for Breeders - Page 3

AKVeronica60, YellowRose, and Animules.. Yes, very good information on this site! There's lots of information on this, I am sure, all over the internet for those who want to research it. Brucellosis is very much alive and well, as Animules said it has found a reservoir in the Bison population around Yellowstone National Park, and some of those Bison wander out of the park onto Federal grazing lands and ranches, creating a risk to livestock. In this country it used to be known as "Bang's Disease" or "Undulant Fever", often shared with humans by infected dairy cattle through unpasteurized milk. This is one of the reasons pasteurization was made mandatory in the US for all dairy products. I believe that it could be fatal for humans. So far as I know, there is only one brucellosis, although it mainly stays within the confines of one species' population, mainly spread by breeding, licking, sniffing, nursing, etc. In other words, it is spread by body secretions and open wounds or mucus membrane contact. I have never heard of it spreading to humans via canines, but I suppose it could happen. Before you go into a panic, I would like to repeat that most of these tests are done in-office or local lab via a plate agglutination test, which is notoriously inaccurate (many false positives). Only a culture in a lab prepared to do that will tell you for sure. You should contact Dr. Jean Dodds, DVM. She had an office in NYC and one in Santa Monica, or Culver City, CA, last I knew. She is expert in this sort of thing and she is wonderful! Until you know for certain, keep your bitch isolated. See, here is how I see it, now. I just don't care to deal with the public. I know that purebred dogs are expensive and we can really use the money, but look at how many problems the public at large is bringing the purebred dog community! Consider the plight of the Pit Bull people, now. The genie is out of the box, and no way of bringing it back, but when their breed became popular and every punk idiot had to have one, THAT is where the trouble started. Now, they are at risk of losing all of their dogs. It's nice to do a little business, but in the long run, it's not worth it. You have your dogs for love or money, but it's hard to do both.

DDR: Thats true , Thanks for the info; Why would a vet make a statement that there was none in 20 years? Maybe there was a communications mistake. Veronica may want to reply. Maybe I read the thread wrong......I do not offer any stud for breeding did it 2 times and almost died myself with worry and even with a test done several times My worry ratio still outweighs the need to be paid for a service. I have enough worry keeping a lid on my own females from getting bred when they dont need to be. Lesson digested......Veronica , come to Texas,,,,,,visit .....and bring my black male pup.....Hi I knew it was you.....This is Jan........

By the way DDR , in my research , u can read off google on the disease , it says it can be transmitted to humans that handle the diseased female during delivery or treating...Ill try to find the link, later. My web site is down because my webmaster is dying of cancer, and in a coma and didnt download my site to suddenlink who bought out Cox...ended last night and Im gone , floating in syberspace with no way to get it . Its a dream weaver and i know nothing about webs or how to, so pray for Michael , that His Hand will take him gently, and I will go try to get my web up today ......pray I learn how with suddenlinks help.....will be bc on tonight to see all responses.....I still would like to know how many cases of Brucel there are that have been documented if possible.....bet its a lot more than we know....another is the deadly fungi disease that cattle get and a german in Dallas died of it last year as he ate some wood that has laid in a pasture for years and right this minute I can not think of the name.. starts with a P..

Well good thing AKC has DNA for litters now...just have them do a DNA test on the litter befor you sign the papers...you know she was tied to another dog.. If they don't get the test done then they don't get thier papers. And if you bred her befor you were paid then your fault. You have learned a good lesson...always have the contract signed and the payment in hand befor you do the breeding. I also will not take personal checks anymore, has to be cash or a Money order. If it is cash they get a reciept..mo comes with one. My stud contract says that they will get a repeat breeding if the bitch doesn't take the first time.

Yellow Rose, did I understand you correctly? A German man died of a fungal disease after he ate some wood that had laid in a pasture? What kind of teeth and apetite did this man have? The Human Termite! I think I know the fungal thing you are talking about. We call it "Valley Fever" out here. I forget the scientific / medical name for it. It's all through the SW US, but it is rare.. contracted more frequently in arid, dusty areas where the spores can move around easily and be inhaled. Funny, because I love the smell of dirt, fresh dug! Well, we could worry ourselves to death, too, you know, and many have done it, so just do the best you can and don't worry too much. I would contact Dr. Jean Dodds, DVM and find out how to get that blood culture. My gut feeling is that Texas AM did the plate agglutination test and this is too often incorrect. Your dog is probably fine. But you can't just shrug it off. You need to know.

DDR-DSH wrote "...Terrible story about the brucellosis positive, but if it will make you feel better, the typical office test for this is a plate agglutination test and false positives are very, very common...." If false positives are common, what are the chances of a false negative? Thanks, -Tina

I really do not know, but I think that they are far less. Short of being a trained medical / veterinary / laboratory person, which I DEFINITELY am NOT, I think that the plate agglutination test just checks for an immune response by checking for clumping of white cells on a slide. But if there IS a reaction, it could be to a contaminant, or it could be that the animal was previously exposed (and thus has an antibody titer) but is not actually infected. TB tests in humans are the same. They use a skin test for that. If a red spot develops at the site of the injection or scratch, then that is a positive. At that point, they have to look at a lung x-ray. Nurses test positive to these tests, basically every time, but they can be perfectly healthy. I tested positive, because my grandfather was infected, and so I got exposed when I was little. But I never actually contracted the disease and probably never will because I developed an immunity to it. On the other hand.. (and this is in response to your question), a false negative COULD happen if the animal or person was recently infected! New, or incubatory phase infections, can be one of the most dangerous and contagious stages, even if symptoms have not manifested yet, because the virus or infective agent can be replicating fast and shedding, in the absence of any developed immune response. So, yes.. It is possible to have false negatives. But probably less often than false positives.

The way that mammals acquire, and resist or succumb to viral infections and other kinds of disease is pretty simple, but it does have it's little twists and turns and it is often misunderstood. An animal (or person) which is raised and kept in a very clean environment, and then suddenly exposed to an infective agent (especially if they are given a moderate to high degree of exposure) may be in more danger of contracting and succumbing to a disease than one which is raised in a slightly contaminated or dirty environment where a constant but slight to moderate (thus tolerable) level of bacteria, viruses, etc are present. In other words, mild exposures can be managed in healthy populations via the immune response, whereas healthy populations which are not given an opportunity to develop immune responses will usually acquire serious infections and develop acute symptoms when taken from a very clean environment and placed in a contaminated one. This is what is happening when kennel dogs are impounded (as in forfeiture raids). They can be actually MORE at risk than general population or free-roaming dogs because of two factors: The lack of previous exposure, followed by a sudden extreme exposure. Impounds or "shelters" generally harbor a wide range of infectious diseases, in high concentrations. So, it's kind of like "Montezuma's Revenge". You go to some country, usually with poor or no modern water treatment, and you don't dare drink the local water. The locals may be able to do it, but they have become acclimated to it. The traveler from a modern, developed country with excellent water quality and hygiene is at high risk of becoming morbidly ill!

Yellowrose.. You asked why veterinarians sometimes make ill-considered or ill-informed statements. It happens! I cannot tell you the number of times, over the years, when I have heard veterinarians offer statements, diagnoses, and opinions which were absolutely wrong. They are human, and humans fail and err all-too-frequently. That's why you are supposed to get second opinions and do your own research. There is a pretty wide gap between large animal (agricultural) and small animal practice, so that a small animal practitioner would not necessarily be well-advised in large animal practice. Brucellosis is, and always was, mainly a large animal concern in the US, mainly relevant to the dairy industry. And you also have to consider that not many veterinarians are really informed on dog breeder concerns. Most would rather make their money on spay and neuter, and have very little interest in breeding topics.

I can see I accidentally caused some controversy. I meant, "he said there had not been a case of bruccelosis in 20 years IN HORSES". And that was MORE than ten years ago, come to think of it. He was a very good reproductive specialist in equines, so if there was any mistake, it had to be mine. I do not claim to know what is going on concerning infectious diseases in domestic species. I only asked the question out of curiosity--if I ever breed my male out, he'll be brucelosis tested, and when I send my females out, they are tested. I read the same website as has been quoted, but I am not sure as to the accuracy of any of the websites. Often, they quote old information and present it without reference to time frames. I would be interested in reading a scientifically-based professional article with good credentials concerning interspecies infection, or something like that, if anyone knows of it, just for curiosity's sake. Thanks in advance.