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by Hundmutter on 15 March 2013 - 03:03
Rik: well said.
by eddyelevation on 15 March 2013 - 06:03
so what EVERYONE OF US ALREADY KNOWS."..................and what does everyone do about it..............NOTHING AT ALL...........
at least he writes about it.........and if u read one of his posts you would see he like all police type dogs..............and writes about the history of the police canine........
in any case people are always in denial i put up a quote from the founder pf the breed and someone says oh..you cant use that quote...........come on .for real...........its so clear yet no one wants to see it...............very sad, actually quite disturbing!
at least he writes about it.........and if u read one of his posts you would see he like all police type dogs..............and writes about the history of the police canine........
in any case people are always in denial i put up a quote from the founder pf the breed and someone says oh..you cant use that quote...........come on .for real...........its so clear yet no one wants to see it...............very sad, actually quite disturbing!
by Blitzen on 15 March 2013 - 08:03
Rik, that's it in a nutshell. by Gustav on 15 March 2013 - 08:03
Rik, good post....I agree, that's why there are GS people who I respect who talk the talk and walk the walk, there are others that I like who talk the talk, but don't walk the walk....it all comes down to integrity in keeping the breed what it should be.
The breed is no different, there are GS that I like, but it is important that I respect the dog for what it should be.....too often the two don't correlate.
Example: I get many many requests from people from various places recommending breeders, ( yes even SL breeders for those that don't think so...lol), anyway, there are breeders that I readily recommend because I know they will get a puppy that is bold, balanced, confident, good nerve, biddable, because these are the priorities these breeders value. They do not breed for ornament looks or super duper drive primarily, therefore the puppy quickly acclimated to the family and the EXPECTATIONS of the new owners and they are happy. I know breeders in all lines with these priorities, though in some lines it is getting very scarce and that is sad. These are breed people I have immense respect for.
The breed is no different, there are GS that I like, but it is important that I respect the dog for what it should be.....too often the two don't correlate.
Example: I get many many requests from people from various places recommending breeders, ( yes even SL breeders for those that don't think so...lol), anyway, there are breeders that I readily recommend because I know they will get a puppy that is bold, balanced, confident, good nerve, biddable, because these are the priorities these breeders value. They do not breed for ornament looks or super duper drive primarily, therefore the puppy quickly acclimated to the family and the EXPECTATIONS of the new owners and they are happy. I know breeders in all lines with these priorities, though in some lines it is getting very scarce and that is sad. These are breed people I have immense respect for.
by kyto on 15 March 2013 - 16:03
gustav, if you know some breeders who can guarantee me that they have GSD puppies who can compete in belgium ring trials without having to quit at 6-7 years because of health issues due to the jumps please contact me i know a lot of interested trainners.
but i fear unless SV starts to demand serious health tests to al kennelclubs (they can as the breedclub of country of origin) before they would allow a dog in any breedingprogram, those dogs will never return, i still have a picture at the club of a GSD jumping a 3,5m high jump in old belgium ring nvbk at the age of 9years were are those dogs???
fact is that SV/WUSV have the power to do something about the decline of the breed not individual breeders, the health issues are to big these day's let alone getting the truelly hard dogs back they had 50years ago
my opinion is return to original breedstandards and get a natural test on the dogs not a joke korung, demand serious health tests on known problems, hips, elbows,shoulders, spine before a dog is allowed in any breeding program
but i fear SV/WUSV boardmembers have all interest in keeping things as they are, so maybe the separation into 2breeds wouldn't be a bad thing complicated sure but bad maybe the only way to preserve the GSD for future generations certainly it's the only hope i have to ever see a GSD like max in real life, he was my grandfathers dog but i never saw him taking those jumps i was born when he was 14, he competed in nvbk ring untill he was 10
i dont remember max but when i look at the picture of max his father taking that 3,5m jump i wonder if somewere there's a GSD who could do it to untill he's 10? they used to be common sadley no more and showlinepeople can blame workinglinepeople or vice versa i don't care SV still is the breedclub of country of origin and has been dictating breedregulations to all FCImember countries so there to blame they can force breeders to act ,nobody else can do it like they can
that is why rsv2000 deserves all the support they can get, not for workingperformance just because if they really want real workingdogs the healthissues are something they need to deal with, no healthy dogs=no sportdogs
if a breed separation would come to it rsv2000 could be the breedclub from the country of origin for workinglines SV could focus on SL, i'm sure in 20years there be big diffrences between the 2
but i fear unless SV starts to demand serious health tests to al kennelclubs (they can as the breedclub of country of origin) before they would allow a dog in any breedingprogram, those dogs will never return, i still have a picture at the club of a GSD jumping a 3,5m high jump in old belgium ring nvbk at the age of 9years were are those dogs???
fact is that SV/WUSV have the power to do something about the decline of the breed not individual breeders, the health issues are to big these day's let alone getting the truelly hard dogs back they had 50years ago
my opinion is return to original breedstandards and get a natural test on the dogs not a joke korung, demand serious health tests on known problems, hips, elbows,shoulders, spine before a dog is allowed in any breeding program
but i fear SV/WUSV boardmembers have all interest in keeping things as they are, so maybe the separation into 2breeds wouldn't be a bad thing complicated sure but bad maybe the only way to preserve the GSD for future generations certainly it's the only hope i have to ever see a GSD like max in real life, he was my grandfathers dog but i never saw him taking those jumps i was born when he was 14, he competed in nvbk ring untill he was 10
i dont remember max but when i look at the picture of max his father taking that 3,5m jump i wonder if somewere there's a GSD who could do it to untill he's 10? they used to be common sadley no more and showlinepeople can blame workinglinepeople or vice versa i don't care SV still is the breedclub of country of origin and has been dictating breedregulations to all FCImember countries so there to blame they can force breeders to act ,nobody else can do it like they can
that is why rsv2000 deserves all the support they can get, not for workingperformance just because if they really want real workingdogs the healthissues are something they need to deal with, no healthy dogs=no sportdogs
if a breed separation would come to it rsv2000 could be the breedclub from the country of origin for workinglines SV could focus on SL, i'm sure in 20years there be big diffrences between the 2
by Jim Engel on 15 March 2013 - 16:03
The NVBK experience may indeed have some lessons:
In Europe, the Belgian Malinois is in ascendance. This breed and this police dog heritage, which emerged in Ghent in 1899 only to be crushed by the German invasion and occupation of 1914, after a century wandering in the wilderness, is rising from the ashes, emerging as the predominant worldwide police breed. An important causative factor in this resurgence is that the Malinois has been virtually free of show breeder control and influence, and that they flourish outside of grasping and suffocating FCI control. The year 1963, when the men of the NVBK summoned the courage to break free, may well ultimately be seen as the turning point for the overall working and police dog movement. The three primary Malinois cultures – that is the KNPV lines, the NVBK lines and the French Ring lines – are relatively diverse and serve as mutual reserve genetic pools.
Although the working German Shepherd community is in the midst of a crushing identity crisis, caught between the SV led show dog establishment and the Malinois surge on the sport fields and police rosters of the world, a long and noble history and enormous worldwide numbers provide a cushion, the possibility of redemption. In the broad picture, the rise of the Malinois over the past thirty years has been the blessing in disguise, for the competition may be the only thing that can give the German Shepherd working community the courage to rise up in the spirit of 1963 and take their fate into their own hands.
In Europe, the Belgian Malinois is in ascendance. This breed and this police dog heritage, which emerged in Ghent in 1899 only to be crushed by the German invasion and occupation of 1914, after a century wandering in the wilderness, is rising from the ashes, emerging as the predominant worldwide police breed. An important causative factor in this resurgence is that the Malinois has been virtually free of show breeder control and influence, and that they flourish outside of grasping and suffocating FCI control. The year 1963, when the men of the NVBK summoned the courage to break free, may well ultimately be seen as the turning point for the overall working and police dog movement. The three primary Malinois cultures – that is the KNPV lines, the NVBK lines and the French Ring lines – are relatively diverse and serve as mutual reserve genetic pools.
Although the working German Shepherd community is in the midst of a crushing identity crisis, caught between the SV led show dog establishment and the Malinois surge on the sport fields and police rosters of the world, a long and noble history and enormous worldwide numbers provide a cushion, the possibility of redemption. In the broad picture, the rise of the Malinois over the past thirty years has been the blessing in disguise, for the competition may be the only thing that can give the German Shepherd working community the courage to rise up in the spirit of 1963 and take their fate into their own hands.
by eddyelevation on 15 March 2013 - 18:03
beautiful post kyto and jim............has anyone noticed some people never post on threads like these...............when its clear that the GSD when bred for what it is meant to be is a beautiful and marvelous creature assissiting humans in all kinds of work.............
people realize how great the GSD was and can still be.............
people realize how great the GSD was and can still be.............
by vomeisenhaus on 16 March 2013 - 01:03
eddyelevation . .. AT LEAST HE WRITES ABOUT IT. ... you been under a rock? Its been being wrote about for over a decade. ...lol. here there and everywhere. If Mr. Engel is having a problem with GSD then go get a malinois. Problem solved. This never ending circle jerk is futile. There is no problem getting a GSD that will fit your needs. Getting one for a reasonable price is the problem. The current dollar/euro ratio is a bigger problem IMO than finding a dog to suit me. Lol
by vomeisenhaus on 16 March 2013 - 01:03
Nice post rik...
by eddyelevation on 16 March 2013 - 01:03
and u still choose to ignore it...............
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