inbreeding , your thoughts on this future combination - Page 3

well, I didn't breed this litter but, my dog, Bo von der Staatsmacht is 2-3 on Orla von der Schiffslache. I imported her at 5 months. She is a 23 month old female who loves to track. She is not a prey monster...loves to engage the man.

 

 

female line. Not tom.  Would like to have seen Tom on the male side.  JMO

ziegenfarm , what next is very much depending on the outcome  , my program is planned ahead pretty much , but to improve in breeding  you allways have to look at what a female needs ,so depending on the outcome the next step will be made

I dont see the need to bring in westdogs so much as all qualities that can be found in west dogs  can also be found in czech lines , I have over the years bred some very good males from different czech lines that are available to me to use , these are dogs with very good levels of hardness/agression,civil/prey  and each of them can bring me what alot of the famous sport dogs cannot even bring anymore
I set up few different czech bloodlines , so I can outcross without problems within czech dogs/lines

these males all have great health records and workingqualitys , the only thing they dont have is a famous name



 

I need names duke...not that what you're saying about them isn't true...just wanting to see pedigrees...so I can add comments in my win-sis program...plus, I'd like to see if you're breeding anything different than what I see...as far as west german vs czech or whatever...guess, I haven't seen enough dogs...because the ones I'm seeing are dogs each with there own personalities..just seems like we are splitting the breed up even more:-) The most recent dogs from czech I've seen have been west german x czech breedings....what is it that the top sport dogs are lacking...that the dogs you breed to have so much of...and are passing on to thier offspring...and the dams name is????

judron ,I dont want to go into that discussion really ,I was at the belgium selections for WUSV universalsieger this weekend ,and saw quite a few SPORTDOGS , nothing wrong with that for sport ,I had some interesting discussions about modern training and its influence on the breed(not only GSD) with people like Helmut Raiser and Bart Bellon and they feel the same about this ,  but the majoriy of my dogs go into other directions so I dont breed in in that direction and dont look for "points"qualities in my breeding stock , I want a dog to guard the man , not the prey , I want a dog to be able to work in low drive and shift gear , not whipped up and screamed at before bitework to name a few
surprisingly some of my dogs are going into sporthomes and doing well and some young dogs of mine are now with toplevel competitors

some of these males??

Yankee  http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=705681 
HD A  ED 0  young male with great balance of qualities , is looked at by west sport breeders already  bred in cooperation with other breeder

enzo  van de duca vallei http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=636427

HD B ED 0 best IPO2 at the french national championships last year ,now IPO3

Extra van de duca vallei  http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=636424 

HD A ED 0  IPO1 failed IPO2 few times for no out  ,I will breed him for the first time next month

Graucho axa van de duca vallei  http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=707034 


Male in this topc HD a ED0  wilwwwwwwww wwww    will be titled KNPV PH1 this summer


Chip van de duca vallei  http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=596928


HD a ED 0  in training KNPV

Hagar van de duca vallei  http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1322626

HD A ED 0 trained personal protection dog

and some others , all these dogs have multiple littermates in various jobs and sports , all with good hips/elbows/spine ,

I pick my breedingdogs for the qualities they have , not for the trophies they won

hope this helps
 

 I want a dog to guard the man , not the prey , I want a dog to be able to work in low drive and shift gear , not whipped up and screamed at before bitework to name a few


ha ha.....I've got one of those and he happens to not be Czech:-)....my point is, plenty of dogs available to find those qualities....knowing what you're looking for is key! Thanks for the info:-)

bringing in males  from previous breedings is a very successful practice of some of the old greats from the past.  busecker schloss is an example of this.  its smart, too, because you don't have to keep all those dogs on your own place, yet you have access to the genetic groundwork that you've already laid.  you can concentrate on maintaining a strong dam line yet pull in males, as needed, from previous breedings or linebred on dogs you need to bring in without having 100 dogs to feed in the meantime.
ron's dog, bo, is a fine example of what can be done with a strong dam line (franka/orla/connie).  i know, people have criticised me before for calling that a "line" because they don't have the same kennel name.  so what --- it doesn't change the genetics.  stephan is using these bitches extensively in his kennel & with good reason.  still, a good example of maintaining a strong dam line while bringing "back in" males as needed.
pjp

Good that some dogs Can make it In KNPV not many gsd Can

Thanks pjp......I got her for her female representation in her pedigree...!

judron , your response tells me any info send to you is a waist of time , obviously your dog is not representing all west dogs the same as mine are not representing all czech dogs.

good luck with your dog