Another Puppy Mill discovered - Page 3

>>The large and long-established "big name" GSD kennels can do this and we will accept it as part of the craft and not dare refer to any of them as a puppy mill, even though the rearing of puppies is continual and is a major source of profit. Of course such a kennel is usually policed by the watchful eyes of the local breed warden who is required to verify that at least the minimum S.V. standards are upheld as far as paperwork accuracy, cleanliness, care, and health. Beyond that, many of the larger German breeders use a "team" concept where litters are whelped and raised at places other than the kennel owner's primary location. And I've also been told that an advertisment for pups in Germany is likely to result in an inspection from the state veterinary office within a few days - so between the SV and the state vet, there's much more "policing" going on over there than in the USA. >>It would have driven me nuts to have more than one litter per year as I always had major problems finding appropriate homes for the puppies. If that's not a factor then I suppose one might have a different outlook on multiple litters per year. This certainly makes sense for the smaller, lesser-known breeder who is concerned about proper placement. The flip side is that the world-renowned kennels can afford to be selective and still place dozens of pups per year in good homes, because the demand for what they produce is so high.

Thanks Blitzen, you're right, I meant NO OFFENCE. GSD'S are different from the breeds Blitzen and I breed, she has a point, more than two litters a year in OUR eye's makes a breeder look bad. Note I said in OUR eyes, not everyones. Most decent breeders will tell you a GSD can have two litters a in a row, and take a heat off. Not the way it is with Goldens. We breed one heat, take TWO off, therefore having one litter a year. At first I thought it was cruel, having two litters from one bitch per year, but I talked to my Canine Repo vet about it, and he said that GSD's are different, they can easily handle two (assuming nothing's wrong with the bitch) and be okay. If you did that to a Golden, they're fur takes almost a whole year to fully grow back! My female had a litter in March, her fur isn't even half of what it was! So, different breeds, different opinions. Thanks again Blitz!

p59teitel speaks the truth about the "teams". I have a friend that breeds under the kennel name Von Batu. There are 4 kennels around Germany that breed under that name and they have to ensure between all of them that they do not exceed the 10 litter limit per year. They also have to make sure what letter the of the alphabet is coming up next between them when they register the pups and name them. If my friend wanted to do more breeding than the 10 allow under Von Batu, he would have to use his own kennel name(which he has not used in years), and he just does not do that(use his own kennel name) because his kennel name is not famous and he would have problems selling the same puppies that QUICKLY sell under the Von Batu kennel name. The address that is on the registration papers for the Von Batu dogs is not were the dogs are whelped. There is not even a German Shepherd living at that address(in Konigsee).

Thanks P59 and Stephen. The von Batu kennel is of course not the only large kennel in Germany with affilates, or "teams" as they are referred to here. I think that may strike many Americans as a strange business practice, but it is ethical, legal, and the breeding, care, and documentation is maintained under S.V. guidleines. Which is, at least in the example of goverance, much more thorough and firm than our stateside kennel club(s). I know there are things that many of us do not like about the S.V., but for many purposes and intents it does perhaps present the best model, at least in theory and basic governance of an ideal kennel club. Evenso, organizations such as this cannot stop the thing known as a puppy mill who brokers it product to private businesses who in turn sell to the uninformed or uncaring public. That is free enterprise, with a product, a middleman, and a consumer. Bob-O

I'm sort of surprised that method of breeding GSD's has not caught on here in the US.

Regardless about the money It is so sad to see dogs raised liked chickens in a cage with very little human intervention.

I agree, it's not a monitary amount that makes a puppy mill. I myself define it as any person/breeder who raises more puppies than they can properly care for and socialize. Having teams of puppy raisers deff helps a breeder out. Not everybody can hire caretakers and I myself, can't see raising more than 2 litters a year and keeping my sanity. Especially if you are trying to do it all right. It's allot of work involved. "Puppy Mill" to me is a person that doesn't consider the dog/puppies wellbeing as top priority. Carcases shoved out of the way and dogs not even let out once a day for a quick run and some attention, is a shame. More like a POW camp than a kennel. I don't feel the big kennles are puppy mills. They may turn allot of dogs but they also have the experience and $ for help. 1 person most certainly can't raise more than a few litters a year. Especially ontop of holding a real job, gets even harder. I think if breeders are taking their time to title and show their dogs, they are not going to cut corners with the dogs health and such. They have a full team, trainers, caretakers, puppy raisers, groomers and handlers. Must be something like a doggy day spa. All joking aside, I think if the human contact is there and basic training used, vet checks done, sanitation done right, dogs are fed well, it's not a puppy mill. If they sell 10 or 10,000, as long as the pups are well balanced and healthy they are doing a good job. It's not a numbers game.

4-pack, I am glad someone said it that it is not how much you make or how many litters you have, it is the socialization, proper care that diferentiates a good breeder from a puppy mill, you can have just one litter a year and be no better than a so called puppy mill if you are not careing for them properly. The ad said make 12k a year. Well I would have made that had I not put 9k into kennel improvements plus bought some new training equipment. Would that had made me a puppy mill? Others talked about more than one litter a year, well with the 2 due this month, am up to 4. Diference is they will all recieve excelent Vet care, food, socialization as I have built in little slaves, children LOL, they love playing with the puppies, land to roam, people who visit, playmates. heck got 3 puppies sleeping on the living room floor as I type this. What more could a puppy want but someone who screens buyers and won't sell you till the right person comes along for that pup. Way, Way too much emphasis is put on how much a person makes as a breeder/ broker or how much someone charges. As I have said before, A good healthy pup is priceless!!! For everything else there is mastercard, to pay all the vet bills LOL

EDD & 4pack, Very Well Said. (applause) :-) I know when investigating a "puppy mill" or Kennel problem sometimes it's called. We don't look at numbers, we look for hygene, health, socialization, living quarters, sufficient excercise opportunities, vaccination records, Veterinary records, and typically will speak with the vets. Money and #'s are not even considered relevant. But all the above mentioned are. 1 male and 1 female breeding 2 to 3 litters per year could be a "puppy mill" if they are unkept. Honestly I guess that would be the key word in descriptionary defenition of "puppy mill"

EDD, glad someone understood what I was getting at. LOL I really hate to see the big kennels get picked on for being big. If they sell nice healthy pups, that go on to succeed, more power to them. Obviously they are doing something right. On the flip side, I hate to see pups sold over priced, just because of kennel names. Always a sucker out there thinking the name will make the dog.