Asko von der Lutter - Page 3

Top fifty or bottom fifty, what difference does it make...as long as particpation in BSP is the result of 1st,2nd,3rd, place in a regional event(LGA), then for a dog to even make it there shows a dog with an ability to be productive with correct training. Isn't this what the breed is about?? To be one of the top producers of dogs competing at this level, personal opinions aside, reflects a stud dog of value. How you use him and who you breed him to is your choice, but his production in the sport world is very solid based on facts. When a dog has been bred as much as Asko there will always be progeny that are unintended results, or a bad combination with the female. But logic tells me that some of the most successful and knowledgable breeders in Europe repeatedly used this dog, and the training results of his progeny is as high as any dog in past 30 years, that the dog has value except  with the elite of the PDB.

"Is the second generation too removed from the Grand-parent to be able to say that is where the influences come from?"
 
This is always interesting. Now we are dealing with 6 dogs.  There is no way of conclusively saying that the dog recieved this or that from a particuilar dog.  We know what traits we are aiming for and we do get that desired result or some resemblence there of.  But is this not the purpose of the breed survey?  This dog should be used to ex. improve structure, improve drive.

For some reason we think that we will only get the good when using a particuilar dog for stud or future line breeding.  Are the chances not the same that we get what is not desirable as well?

There are a few training videos of Asko, just google him.  But most are trial exercise reps not drive building or helper challenging the dog.

Kyle

Maybe that's just not his strength.  Maybe he's better off for support in the pedigree's structure for some particular characteristic.  I don't know what his strengths or weaknesses are, I've never paid him much mind.  Probably the biggest reason being; judging from his pedigree structure, I don't think he's prepotent enough to stamp himself into his offspring.  I prefer to see some linebreeding in one if not both of the parents, and in the offspring as well for future line building.  A "bloodline" will only stretch so far without genetic prepotence.

Examine the first place champion of the 2006 BSP, Caro vom Mörfelder Land.  Caro is from Branko vom Salztalblick (linebred on T-litter von der bösen Nachbarschaft, and therefore Fero, a son of Rocky von den Zingelgärten), bred to a daughter of Asko.  The linebred stud Branko can be expected to stamp himself doubly better than could Buffy vom Mörfelder Land, the daughter of Asko.  Caro certainly resembles Branko moreso in appearance.

Caro vom Mörfelder Land (Branko/Asko)

Daryll,
I agree  with you that Asko, for some breedings, is only going to be a strength in supporting type role. Actually, my support of Asko is based primarily on his ability to have sired many many highly trained dogs. Though I have personal preferences in the type of German Shepherd that I like, when evaluating a stud, I look to see if the dog will breed true to what it is. Asko and Aly Vordinsteinwald are dogs that are the epitome of current sport breeding. They also give decent structure and above average hips. So to me he is important stud, maybe not the dog I would use for some things, but for others certainly. JMO

As with all species in breeding you get the good and the bad, Asko is one Dog it takes two so any faults some may think he passes on may not be directly his fault, on the other hand they may be in part.
As far as i know he has bred some really class Dogs which have worked well in top class competitions over this side of the World.
There is no one Dog who is perfect just as there is no human who is perfect, any one purchasing a Pup or Dog does there homework first any doubts in a breeding then it should be left alone,
However for Me, i never go on heresay i want to see for myself and that does not only apply to Dogs
Steve1

GUPPY you asked  about  "Dogs that were previously sound of nerve, now wash out of Schutzhund, run out of the obedience ring, have episodes of random aggression."  I've never seen this and if the dogs were sound and doing well before and then start this behavior I would look more into the training and handling of the dogs.

KYLE I'd like to see these training vids that you are talking about. As far as I know there is only one video of Asko, that everyone has seen online and that is him in trial. If yo've found others I'd aprreciate it if you would post their links. Thanks.

DARYL I think you are spot on with your beeding philosophy.

GREAT thread. One of the best I've read in a long time. Some actual thought coming out.

I think it is on the  'MyVideo" website.  I will confirm and post later.

I have some expirience breeding on Asko von der Lutter    also on line breeding  I have met Asko personally . As with all stud dogs   such as Fero who was also used very much  not so desireable prodgeny is to be expected  however looking at the statistics of Asko Lutter as a producer makes him a much desirable dog .  Asko does produce biddable dogs  sometimes prodgeny can be a bit soft to handler but also produces hard to the helper dogs :)
Asko Lutter grandson out of my breeding  http://vomrheinland.com/gator.html  check the newest video ScHH1 :) This is also a dog that can be lived with  sond temperament . another is Ukon and Cara vom Rheinland  check under females  also  Immo ( page coming soon )  most of my Asko blood was bred over Mandy vom Barockschloessle   through  different males :) Immo is a direct son and one of the last Asko sons.

I speak from my expirience with Asko von der Lutter  not though hear say  FYI :)

Pia

I was wondering if you might comment on this one Pia. Unfortunately I couldn't get the video to play.

Rick

Who is this Pia person? You don't know what you're talking.