Sieger Zamp vom Thermodos dies and people cry... - Page 3

Silbersee, I don't see where anyone was saying Zamp wasn't a much loved family member. Quite the opposite...

missbeeb, yeah, I must be slipping, I actually said Zamp was a beautiful dog! 

Sorry Sunsilver, that part was meant for Jantie. I should have edited my previous post to make that more clear but I have an aversion to deleting or editing a post after it was responded to already.
You see, Jan has a thing about these commercial breeders. You might remember that he published a list of them a couple of weeks or so ago.

8years of a GSD is a high age,  normal lifes is between 8-10 so why should there be any wrong that hi past away?

Let's figure what are the most common causes of death in a GSD male past middle age (as opposed to sudden death in young adults): cancer (usually hemangiosarcoma--occasionally prostatic/testicular cancer, lymphoma) or bloat.

IMO, past middle-aged dogs (of Zamp's age) who succumb to these diseases do so simply because they are purebred GSDs--not because they are inbred, showlines, Siegers, etc. These diseases tend to pick no favorites and and often occur just as frequently in working lines and in outcrosses. There is no confirmed evidence that these diseases are familial--although possibly selectively related to specific breeds.

However, I should add that there may be families of European-bred GSD's where there are trends toward what appear to be genetically predisposed causes of early death in younger dogs and those in their prime (much younger than Zamp)..

Knowledge of theoretical genetics and of inbreeding depression is fine for those who live in the clouds. What we need is practical knowledge of genetics from real breeders with intimate knowledge/familiarity of the bloodlines involved.

Regarding Zamp's untimely death, it would appear that many self-proclaimed geneticists almost gleefully rush to fault the dog's immediate ancestors, perceived inbreeding, and showlines.

Generally speaking, dogs past middle age tend to die earlier than expected because their immune systems have been challenged (by environmental toxins, commercial diets, vaccinosis, etc,) once too often to support them with further defenses--JMHO.

The type of linebreeding in most showline GSDs of European origin is decidedly different from what I have seen in the clearly incestuous breeding that has occurred in American showlines.

In due time, we may learn the cause of Zamp's death. In the meantime, we should respectfully offer our condolences to his family and those who loved him

well put Louise.

Well Louise, I do agree to some extent with your comment: "Generally speaking, dogs past middle age tend to die earlier than expected because their immune systems have been challenged (by environmental toxins, commercial diets, vaccinosis, etc,) once too often to support them with further defenses"

"Immune system" is good!
(My dog had skin- (paw-) issues, and EPI also as I have added on many occasions.) I talked to a lady breeder in Germany only days ago, and she was also referring to the food as a hugely important factor.

People have asked me on different occasions to widen my research and get into other "problems". They sometimes lecture me, that OTHER diseases are far WORSE than CHD (canine hip dysplasia) and things like that. And they send me kind letters informing me of what they have encountered in their own breedings and point the finger at problems yet not disclosed be many...

Justt a quotation at random:
"There are so many genetic defects out there that no one is talking about that are ruining the breed.... (I have censored PERSONAL EXPERIENCES of this particuar breeder here)
...There are also EPI carriers being bred all the time giving rise to that horrible disease. And then there is a male in my area that was NZ on his hips in Europe and the breeder here who bought him tells everyone that he is OFA excellent in this country so she clearly switched dogs for the xrays. He is producing dysplastic hips in his puppies. I am just disgusted with all this. Heath is everything to me and without that nothing else matters.
Maybe your next project should be what dogs are carriers of what diseases. I don't know how you will find out that information because no one will talk about it. This is the future of the breed and the problem is only getting worse."

A very desperate letter indeed, so I feel I MUST continue and widen my research, although it is very tough. People tend to get very emotional (paranoid) when you're talking about their beloved Holy Breed. Let alone that they will inform you of the problems. Now we CAN check on HD, as we have quite a big amount of diagnoses here, but how are we gonna register what the other problems are, if we don't start taking notes?
AND IF NOBODY IS WILLING TO TALK!!

What about a beautiful dog like Rocky vom Haus Tepferd (you will find him on this database).
He went to England (to a breeder who tells us most of his dogs are "given away to friends" - Yeah RIGHT!!) but was sold to India. I'd like to see the check for that, it was certainy not a Christmas present. He died way before his time. Giving away the cause of death as: "Infection" will not help us find out more, will it?

What about Ex von Arline. A beautiful dog with an Ausleser-career right in front of him. He came to his end too soon. So many people seem to have known him (or pretend they have), from up-close! But apparently nobody wants to talk about a cause of death. Why not? What is so scary about death? It's not contagious? Or is it?

And what was the deal about Erasmus van Noort. He did not dy from age did he? Couldn't really figure out what collumn to put him into.

Now referrring to my initial message, I was just asking for cold, basic information on dogs dying at young ages.
Let us start taking notes,
and maybe some day it will help us on our way to healthier dogs.
We should go ahead an widen the GSD-Genetics-database, not only checking HD and ED, and gather as much information in it as we can.

Yours,
Jan
Wishing everybody healthy dogs (with long forfilled lives)

Jantie ,

There is a time and a place for everything, this thread at this time was neither!!!

You must give people chance to grieve, this family could'nt even mention Zamps name without breaking down in tears or at least welling up so much it rendered them hardly able to speak at all. Hence this is hardly the time to start asking your questions, it is all still too very painful.

In the Dieterich household Zamp was very much an integral part of their family, Lisa thought of him as her brother, so to her she has not just lost a dog, a pet but a member of her family, her brother.  Zamp had been a major part of Lisa's life since she was 8yrs old, and is finding it very difficult to accept he is gone, the pain is so intense for her at the moment that in order to get through the day I believe for the most part she is still in denial. So you must give the family a decent time to greive.

I am sure someday when it isnt so painful to talk about, they will be able to say exactly what he died of, until then we just have to wait. Whatever it was I can assure you that knowing today isnt going to produce a cure tomorrow. You can take my word on that one!!.

In future Jantie please try to remember that prodding the sore of someone in pain is more likely to achieve the opposite result to the one you require, which is one of clarity and co-operation. At this time such an insensitive post as this, is more likely to render you permanent snubbed.  

Regards
Sue b

Please disregard any emotional plea. They have nothing to do with this topic.

This is all about collecting information, and information only.

Please DO keep sending me info on deceased GSD's (PM is fine), and EPI, bloat, heart diseases, etc.
I will collect all of the info in a huge database and put it at your disposal (as I have done with other stuff).

Let me put in another name: Astana Alfons. I know he was shared by breeder and buyer. Would be interesting to hear the whole story again from people up close. (Julie and Tom, please feel free to contribute to my study.)

Thanks for all of your input. I appreciate it high time!
Jan