Longcoats being titled and shown. - Page 3

One of the nicest males I have seen is a long stock coat. No way would I overlook him because of his coat!

 

Personally, I like long coats, too. When my stock coat sheds out she has super short hair. She looks so pathetic, I hate to take her out in public. My long stock coat bitch, on the other hand, always has a nice looking coat (even when she sheds out). I admit I'm a bit vain about my dogs.

 

Of course, the coat doesn't make the dog. If the dog has good drives and can work, I don't care about the coat. JMHO

 

Also, I am glad the SV is holding separate classes for the LSC. I wouldn't want my LSC to compete against biased judges. In reality, some judges will NOT pin a LSC over a regular stock coat. It's not right, but it will happen. Even if the judge isn't biased, the LSC fans might assume he is. The separate classes eliminate any suspicion and arguments and give the LSC a fair chance against their own.

I agree with Rik regarding the LC factor.  Many dogs "hint" at the fact that they may be carrying the coat factor because of their own very heavy and/or plush coat.  If you look at their pedigrees, you can often spot antecedents who were known to produce coats.

 

 

The AKC has been known to make adjustments, in view of the money to be made by breeders.  That is when the standard(s) change.  For example, collies used to be disqualified, if there was too much white in the coat.  Then, the breeders found that they were producing a lot of puppies that had lots of white or were entirely white.  So, they changed the standard.

Look at the current Pomeranians.  That used to be a smallish medium-sized dog weighing 30 lbs.  Now, the standard is for  single-digit lbs. Lilliputians.   That is what sells. 

When someone finally develops a market for apartment-sized gsds, we will see miniature gsds as a separate breed, too.  It is simply a matter of time.  Frankly, I am always surprised that someone has not developed a line of intentionally small (NOT dwarf) gsds.

Til, Xander is gorgeous!!!!!

 

Still don't know what all the fuss is about regarding the coats. It's a recessive gene that has been with the GSDs since the begriming. If you breed two dogs with the recessive gene your going to get some coats. There is nothing to prove that coats carry faults any different than the stock coat.

 

In answer to some the questions from the OP, based on the latest information I've read,but please correct me if I am wrong:

"If an AKC registered pup is born to a coated and a short coat parent can it be registered with the SV if it is 100% European lines?"

Good question and I'm not sure if anyone else answered it, but I am guessing the pups can't be registered. I do know this: If both of the parents are stock coats and are registered with the SV and they meet the requirements (titles, breed survey, passing hip scores)  to have the pups registered with the SV and they have pups with LSC,  the long coated pups can be registered with the SV LSC registry.

"Also why has the amount of longcoats being born increased or maybe its me but it just seems like it from the increase of advertisements?"

Of course there is an increase because of the recent SV ruling to allow the LSC. They are no longer considered mutants...thankfully!

Since they are being shown separately do they receive their own VA ratings and have their own National or World Sieger show?

Yes, they will receive their own ratings based on the same standards of the stock coat, with the exception of the coat.

No, they won"t have their own shows, but they will have their own classes at the shows

Does anyone feel the long coat and short coats should be aloud to interbreed and just have the offspring just shown in different rings depending on what comes out of the litter?

Really it doesn't matter what I think because the decision has been made, but I can certainly see problems with allowing LSC to breed only to LSC. I think the stock coated  "purests" are probably very happy with the ruling as it stands.

  

"Does anyone feel the long coat and short coats should be aloud to interbreed and just have the offspring just shown in different rings depending on what comes out of the litter?"

I think they should be treated like any other GSD, bred together and shown together.

Who needs a bottleneck of LSC genetics out there too?   Temperament and working ability are the most important factors, and many jobs that GSD's are used for currently, the coat length really doesn't matter anyway.

Those who prefer Stock Coats can still find them easy enough.

Does anyone feel if they bottleneck the LSC the coats will get increasingly longer? I think someone mentioned that if you breed a smooth coated collie to a rough coated collie the puppies born that are rough coated don't have as plush of a coat. Is it the same for the GSD? I think by only allowing long coats to breed to each other you increase the chances of the coats becoming extremely long if that makes sense.

I don't see the bottleneck. There will always be a fresh supply of LSC coming from breeding of SC.

In the U.S. and AKC, I think it would be much better if LSC was a variety with their own classes. LSC is not a disqualifying fault in AKC, so technically, they could always be shown. Very few people do because they have very little chance of winning.

Til, your dog is stunning. However it turns out, it's a good thing that dogs such as yours are no longer treated as second class.

Rik

I personally like the look of long coats but the long coat is a fault in a breed standard (as is the white color). And as long as it is considered a fault, as long they should not be bred/interbred (according to standard) on purpose. I like the look of a long coat but I love the standard coat due to its low maintenance.  I believe that standard calls long coat a 'fault' mainly because of the fact that is it somewhat troublesome to maintain in a working dog. My girl’s coat (standard) is perfect in this regard. She will swim in a cold Pacific Ocean or roll in a mud paddle and all it takes is a towel to wipe her off. The moisture and dirt doesn’t pass her outer coat and she never gets cold, snow doesn’t clump on her either.  
But as it has been mentioned above – the standard may change if there is enough pressure… But till then I believe we should not propagate the long coat. There is enough long coat puppies born from regular coated parents for everybody who wants to have one.
I don’t want to diminish the abilities and beauty of long coated GSDs. One of the most famous Polish Police Dogs I know was a long coat GSD, but if we are talking about breeding to the standards – we should adhere to it. Would you breed/ interbreed with pure white GSD? I think this is exactly the same issue.  

niesia, I'm going to disagree with you a little. White is a disqualifying fault under AKC and SV. LSC is not.

The SV has made it possible for LSC to show in their own class. Hopefully AKC/GSDCA will follow suit. I'm not a fan of LSC, but I have seen what I considered excellent dogs
relegated to pet status because of coat length. Glad to see that changing.

best,
Rik

"the standard may change if there is enough pressure… But till then I believe we should not propagate the long coat. " Niesia, the standrad is already changed since 01.01.2011

Isn't the AKC GSD standard different from the SV standard? Niesia, I don't think you are referring to the same standard as others in this discussion.