New Style Dog Trainers and Behaviourists - Page 3

In my opinion the dogs ARE pack animals. Different breeds behave differently – Goldens and Springer Spaniels are friendly and will go with a Stranger for a walk – GSD’s will stick only to its pack. In my experience GSD’s live revolves around THE PACK and there is nothing worse for them than to be excluded from it.

There is no BEST training method. You can train dog on treats or clicker or without any of those things. It doesn’t matter to the dog what technique you are using – it’s all about the trainer/handler/leader. There are dogs that are food or ball crazy and will do anything for it as a reward, but what do you do with the dog that is smart and doesn’t have any crazies?

My favorite dog trainer (unfortunately not with us anymore) – ex Norwegian Army and Search & Rescue trainer – said to me once that dogs that are too smart for treats or toys need “old school” training. They used to pick the dogs that would do IT for “praise from the handler” not a “reward”. He always said that the “ball crazy” dog will jump of the cliff after the ball. The smart dog will jump of the cliff after the ball only if the handler tells him to do so. Dogs that work for “praise” will go on as long as you want them to go, while the dogs trained on “reward” will do it for as long as they want to receive the reward.

Max,

Don't forget Kelly Martin (another guide dog trainer).  His dog Shane (A-Shane) was a littermate to Amok (Jeckel).   Kelly is the head trainer at Guide Dogs in San Rafael and he used to be Ivan's boss before  Ivan became the Behaviorist for the San Francisco ASPCA.  Both Martha and Kathy worked in special training programs at the SF SPCA.  Kelly met me at a park near our houses several times to teach my dog the send out.  There were a lot of amazing people at the Contra Costa Schutzhund Club.

I used to wonder how I was accepted there.  They were all such incredibly nice and giving people.  There really was not one egotistical jerk there.  There were lots of really nice visitors from other clubs with great dogs.

Michele

there is a huge difference between dogtraining and problemsolving cesar is doing

I really think much of cesar , the way he reads the dogs and set the owners and dogs straight by treating dogs like dogs , among other things

Wrestleman, just TRY training a very shy, insecure dog with schutzhund-type methods, and see how far you get!

I am currently training a dog like this and it is a HUGE challenge, and has taken every shred of patience I have. Still, it makes the progress all the more rewarding to see.

I started out with Kohler, and so did the dog trainer I'm taking classes from. She now uses clicker training and positive training, but is open to students using whatever method they are comfortable with. She said the same as what I said above. the harsh methods do NOT work with shy, soft dogs.

But then, most schutzhund people wouldn't waste a minute of their time with such a dog, anyway.

Michele,
               I will never forget Kelly, he and A-Shane set the bar very
high. Just ask Ivan. Kelly was winning nationals and competing
on a world class level when Ivan was still trialing Nikita. Ivan and
Kelly could have done alot together. But to Ivan's credit he did
things his way and helped the rest of the people in this country
learn good basic fundamentals.

I had an Amok son....I have never seen anything like him before
or after. Bart Bellon nicked named him Cougar.

Question: What's the difference between a behaviorist and a trainer? As I was typing this I think I have a definintion but would like to have you all's thoughts.

Also wouldn't a good trainer have to be a behaviorist as well, just like any good teacher would have to study child behavior?

So why do some people correct you when you call them Dog trainers vs dog behaviorist?

Cuik du Clos St.Michel

The dog I first learned to do FR decoy work with was a Cuik son named "Urgo".  Definitely an ass of a dog LOL 

Malindobe

I was missing something in my dogs. I think what Virus gave to Amok and A-Shine
 was lots of tenacity...I see this in dogs bred off of Cuik du Clos St.Michel .
An old timer years ago told me that this kennel produced extremely civil dogs.
It's like hot pepper, you need to have some to spice things up. I love
this bloodline. But just a little of Virus goes a long way, because he
is heavily line bred on it. Not only Did A-Shine And Amok do very well,
But Virus himself had score a perfect 300 in IPO. A very Civil Bloodline.
It is good they made you work Urgo,...to make your bones as a Decoy.
Ivan wanted to breed a dog that could do it  all and be a family dog that lies
by the fire place with the kids.  So he had some reservations about Virus
for future breeding's. But He had no idea the A- Shine would be a national
 champion and do well internationally to. I used to hear people complain
alot about some Dutch Shepherds being bred to civil for work and sport.
But there is a fine line in my opinion, between to much and just right.



http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/2882/Virus-LOF-10343/2091

How light is your trigger pull on your working dog?
 Malindobe brought to mind a Malinois that was
one of the great custom trigger jobs on a factory dog.

The great..... Urgo de Turenfels . He was a Rusky son
and well known for adding civil drive.

DP2 started using a Urgo son that really improved the trigger,
and a little was all you needed. The dog was.. Judo de la Fecht ,
a double bred Rusky.
Judo had a sharp temperament, but could back his shit up.

On my rifle.... I like about a 1 1/2 pound trigger pull. the factory puts
a 5 Lb pull on there rifles for safety reason and law suits. Some
pistols come with a 10 Lb trigger pull. Working dogs.... the same
thing can apply in breeding.