Show line German Shepherd - Page 3

I do not trust them blindly. They have been trained, They have been tested and two of them have proven themselves on two seperate occasions. I take security seriously. I am on the roads by myself alot and in many areas all times day and night. I also have a concealed carry permit and practice regularly as well as the dogs. I am not naive nor am I complacent that nothing will ever happen to me, it has and I survived.  I am not paranoid, but I do take steps that if anything again happens I am prepared as well as I can be to either protect myself to come home to my family or protect my family. I started out with working line rottweilers when I did sar. My dogs have saved my life against attack and I am knowledgable in both personal and home protection and shooting drills as a result.

@VKGSDs What if when you are getting puppy whose parents are west german show line with VA ranks. Are these show line german shepherds enough to protect/guard the family and patrol the territory ?

@GSDNewbie Thats nice that they are trained and have proved themself. thats the good example that show line are good enough to protect /guard family.

@Manjeet Kumar - There is a vast difference between a pet quality/naturally alert dog and a dog suitable for working.  No, you cannot take a dog that is suitable as a pet/home alert dog and "build drive" to become a working LEO dog (in my opinion.) 

@FlashBang i do not want to pick puppy from show line and build drives to make them able to be working LEO dogs... But i want to make and interested to know whether the dog would be able atleast to protect / guard family and patrol the home territory.. Not a LEO dogs but good enough to protect/guard family... Not enough to patrol the country/ international border but good enough to patrol the house and yard.

@ Manjeet Kumar

Again, it depends on each individual dog, but you can't "build drives" in a dog and make it something it never will be.  A dog is a deterrent.  A firearm is a protector.

There are showlines with high drives. I am used to stronger drive dogs and when i bought my first showline I was worried about it. I searched out for two years and ended up with a little firecracker just like i like. My youngest now is lower in drive but it is a different kind of spark and drive in his work than just a firecracker harder dog like I am used to. I have learned he does respond and work to just with a different aspect and different signs but still just as protective.

 I do not want a dog that is bred for showy sport drive and drive me nuts because he/she is all flash and no ability to contain it. I do not want a showline that cannot do simple tasks and be made to do them with no energy out of pure obedience with no joyfullness at completeing a task for the owner. Research the dogs lines. watch both parents work. and go for the right drive markers in the puppies. There may be duds but chances are you can find one of working or showline bred with the right combination of what the gsd is meant to be. My dogs live indoors with me and I expect drive that is managable and sensible problem solveing with intelligence and kindness that can turn into assertive protectivness when needed. A non drive showline to me is just as bad as too drivy nervy workingline that cannot contain their selves. I find most leos I have met prefer the showlines over extreme workingline as it is easier to patrol with a dog they can control and can control its drive and build the working traits than it is to have an exsplosion when they are needed the most like a timebomb.

Manjeet, it depends on what exactly you want.  I currently have a showline that is my club level Schutzhund dog, and also does some different protection scenarios.  I do not call him a "personal protection dog" because I won't do some of the training that those dogs do and that is not my main purpose for having the dog, but I have done some other work with him not just Schutzhund protection work and I do trust his drives and his training.  However I would not have blindly trusted him, it is only through years of training and working as a team that I fully understand how he thinks and works.  He works mostly in defense, but has a higher threshold so he has very good obedience and control which comes naturally to him.  For example when we enter the field or the building for our protection work, I do not need heavy corrections or an e-collar to heel my dog in quietly and alert him when I'm ready to begin, unlike some dogs that are screaming and frothing at the mouth before they even get within sight of a helper.  His higher threshold makes him "safer" to me because he is first and foremost my companion, he lives in my home with other people and other dogs and needs to be trustworthy in those situations before any sort of protection enters the picture.  I cannot have a dog that is overly suspicious and going off on any stranger, I do have a lot of friends and relatives that come and go in my home and can't always be there to restrain my dog.  He alerts at the door but doesn't eat people that come in.  Lately we have done some bitework with a suit and training the dog to alert on command as well as recalling the dog, having the dog allow the decoy/helper to approach me and touch me after he has threatened the dog but I've said it's OK, etc. The suit work puts a lot of pressure on the dog, it's much differnent than Schutzhund my dog enjoys it.  I am not doing SchH just for a title or to get on a podium so I don't mind setting up some different scenarios during protection work that are not just SChH routine.  For example a few weeks ago my helper to me to have my dog sit in a corner and we walked away from the dog, talking.  I thought we were taking a minute to discuss what else we were going to do, then the helper turned, yelled, and smacked me with the stick.  My dog was on him before I could even turn around and see how he would react.  I do a ton of training with my dog and he is with me all the time.  He works in defense with a high threshold, he understands that protection work means diffusing a threat (not playing a game or winning a sleeve), and because of our relationship he is naturally protective of me without me needing to command him (though with his threshold, he is also "safe", he will not attack someone just for getting in my space or bumping me, his understanding of a threat is someone that is physically provoking me or him, not just a stranger).  Currently the dog has a Protection Alert title and could easily have Protection 1 if there was another trial this season.  In late spring I will start his Schutzhund trials (tracking is my greatest struggle with Schutzhund).

I guess what I am trying to say is yes, if you get the right dog you can get a show line dog but you can't just expect the dog to be what you want because of the pedigree you bought and the price you paid.  My dog works the way he does because of the time I've put in encouraging the drives and behaviors I want and developing a relationship with the dog so that he is sound and confident and protects me because he sees me as a valuable resource and knows he can win the fight, not just because he is scared and barking/biting out of "fight or flight" response.

@GsdNewbie - yeah.. I agree. We need gsd with good drive not too much drive that can be hard to handle... I am also looking for a gsd with a perfect drive for me.. I too do not want low drive or too much drive.. What do you think about West German show line gsd with VA ranks ??