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by Sunsilver on 05 October 2010 - 16:10
Saying an animal 'loves' you in return is attributing human characteristics to the animal. We have no way of knowing just what our dogs or cats feel for us. It may LOOK like love, and we interpret it as love, but the truth is we will never know. The same goes for wild animals such as lions and tigers, only in their case, we stand a much bigger chance of winding up dead if we misinterpret their behaviour.
I am not saying animals aren't capable of emotions. Far from it! However, we need to realize they are a different species, and act and respond differently than we do. Attributing human characteristics to them can be a deadly mistake. Study the animal in its natural environment, watch how it interacts with its own species and its environment. Learn to interpret every nuance of its body language and its vocalizations. THEN maybe you have a hope of interacting with it safely in captivity.
George Schaller, of Born Free fame ran a lion sanctuary in Kenya, where he rehabilitated lions that had been kept as pets. NO ONE was allowed to enter the sanctuary unescorted. The lions like to hide in the long grass and stalk visitors. As they had no fear of humans, the chances of a visitor becoming lunch was very high.
To sum it up, I guess I am trying to say this:
No matter HOW tame a wild animal is, remember it is still wild, and thousands of years of intincts are at work in its brain, guiding its behaviour. NEVER EVER forget that. If something in your behaviour suddenly triggers its instinct to pounce, you may find yourself dead very quickly. I once talked to a man who owned a pet tiger which he had raised from birth. He said the tiger had recently attacked a photographer, as she had been bobbing up and down as she snapped pictures, and her abrupt movements had triggered the tiger's instinct to attack fast-moving prey.
Even if the animal is treating you as one of its own species, it can still hurt you pretty badly as you are much smaller, weaker, and don't have nice thick fur to protect your skin.
I am not saying animals aren't capable of emotions. Far from it! However, we need to realize they are a different species, and act and respond differently than we do. Attributing human characteristics to them can be a deadly mistake. Study the animal in its natural environment, watch how it interacts with its own species and its environment. Learn to interpret every nuance of its body language and its vocalizations. THEN maybe you have a hope of interacting with it safely in captivity.
George Schaller, of Born Free fame ran a lion sanctuary in Kenya, where he rehabilitated lions that had been kept as pets. NO ONE was allowed to enter the sanctuary unescorted. The lions like to hide in the long grass and stalk visitors. As they had no fear of humans, the chances of a visitor becoming lunch was very high.
To sum it up, I guess I am trying to say this:
No matter HOW tame a wild animal is, remember it is still wild, and thousands of years of intincts are at work in its brain, guiding its behaviour. NEVER EVER forget that. If something in your behaviour suddenly triggers its instinct to pounce, you may find yourself dead very quickly. I once talked to a man who owned a pet tiger which he had raised from birth. He said the tiger had recently attacked a photographer, as she had been bobbing up and down as she snapped pictures, and her abrupt movements had triggered the tiger's instinct to attack fast-moving prey.
Even if the animal is treating you as one of its own species, it can still hurt you pretty badly as you are much smaller, weaker, and don't have nice thick fur to protect your skin.
by kitkat3478 on 05 October 2010 - 16:10
I never forgot for one minute my lion was a lion, and was fully aware of the potential to cause serious harm or death.
I was lucky, i had a great deal of luck in getting a good one. And I had years of fun and thrills with her that I wouldn't trade for anything!
I was lucky, i had a great deal of luck in getting a good one. And I had years of fun and thrills with her that I wouldn't trade for anything!
by Sunsilver on 05 October 2010 - 17:10
Kit Kat, I understand a bit of where you're coming from. One of the biggest thrills of MY life was getting to hold a baby lion cub that had just gotten its eyes open. They let me give it its bottle, too!
They had taken it away from its mother to hand raise it, as they were planning on training it for use in movies.
Still have those pictures of it stashed away somewhere...
They had taken it away from its mother to hand raise it, as they were planning on training it for use in movies.
Still have those pictures of it stashed away somewhere...
by jc.carroll on 05 October 2010 - 17:10
In that video, they're using shock-prods on the lions.
Sunsilver,
Very well said. That is one of the reasons I can't stand anthropomorphism. I'll never deny that animals, including my reptiles, have feelings. But my snakes' feelings can't be applied to my dogs', and neither should I apply my (human) feelings to them. Seems a disservice towards animals.
by CrysBuck25 on 05 October 2010 - 17:10
I think another key point to keep in mind when discussing the difference between dogs and lions or chimps, is that dogs have been domesticated for a lot longer than lions or chimps. In fact, the lion is not domesticated at all, though a few have been raised by humans, and the chimp is barely domesticated. The majority of their time spent with humans was as test animals for labs and in movies, which of course does not date that far back.
It seems logical to conclude that after spending the amount of time with humans that dogs have, it's likely they've come to understand us on a deeper level, and we them, than other species, such as the chimps or lions.
Positive only training, from what I have researched, is not appropriate in all cases. Some dogs will not benefit from all positive, some will, and others need a mixture of training methods. Nature surely doesn't buy into the all positive training. Nature's training is pretty much harsh and cruel, which is we hear of attacks like the chimp above. The wild youth of the chimp is about survival by getting to the highest point in their tribe that they can, and it's not about coddling the weak, like the hairless human woman who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I guess it all comes down to, you had better never forget what you're dealing with when you aren't dealing with humans. Animals are not humans, they are not furkids in need of self-esteem building and hand-holding. Make the mistake of forgetting that you are in their world, and they'll give a reminder you won't soon forget. Oh, and I don't believe they will psycho-analyze you and make sure that their reminder is a positive-only approach.
Crys
It seems logical to conclude that after spending the amount of time with humans that dogs have, it's likely they've come to understand us on a deeper level, and we them, than other species, such as the chimps or lions.
Positive only training, from what I have researched, is not appropriate in all cases. Some dogs will not benefit from all positive, some will, and others need a mixture of training methods. Nature surely doesn't buy into the all positive training. Nature's training is pretty much harsh and cruel, which is we hear of attacks like the chimp above. The wild youth of the chimp is about survival by getting to the highest point in their tribe that they can, and it's not about coddling the weak, like the hairless human woman who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I guess it all comes down to, you had better never forget what you're dealing with when you aren't dealing with humans. Animals are not humans, they are not furkids in need of self-esteem building and hand-holding. Make the mistake of forgetting that you are in their world, and they'll give a reminder you won't soon forget. Oh, and I don't believe they will psycho-analyze you and make sure that their reminder is a positive-only approach.
Crys
by Sunsilver on 05 October 2010 - 17:10
Seems a disservice towards animals.
Oh, believe me, it IS! That's why I hate to see Paris Hilton lugging her chihuahua around in her purse, like it's a fashion accessory!
Oh, believe me, it IS! That's why I hate to see Paris Hilton lugging her chihuahua around in her purse, like it's a fashion accessory!
by Doberdoodle on 05 October 2010 - 22:10
In perspective to how many dogs are living in the US and how many people there are, not a lot of people are killed by dogs, most are just bitten, I found this stat- From 1979 through 1994, attacks by dogs resulted in 279 deaths of humans in the United States
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