HD vs Bad back - Page 3

 Prager your last post made me think of another conversation I had with a Malinois breeder/handler/trainer a few years ago.  She was discussing hips.  It seems that if you take two dogs, a Mali and a GSD and both have identical hip grades of "moderate dysplasia" her experience has been the Mali generally does not break down ever or as quickly as the GSD.  The joint deterioration is slower, less arthritis, etc..  Now obviously this was not a scientific study, but it did lead me to wonder if the reason for the difference was due in part to skeletal conformation differences (very little angulation), and also a less stocky overall lighter frame, (less stress on the joints).

Now add to this what you started this thread with, a Malinois has a much shorter back than a GSD.  This must be a big key to it. 

Canis lupus by man is far away from natural look which GSD is somewhat imitating. That may be the problem with backs or rear of the gsd in general.
Look at this. This is what it should be:


And look at this:
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

The proportion diagram you used demonstrates shoulder height and breast to pelvis length.  The height of the hips could be anything, nor is the angle of the back defined.

darylehret
The diagram in post above shows high to length ratio. However the hight of the hips is not "anything", it is what the picture shows it is. I like the picture of that dog.  Forget the lines.
I like this dog too. People talk about old type dogs. This here  is an old type dog. But now people call it an "obsolete" and   that "breeders have developed better dogs than this, and there is no good reason to return to the past." 
Well Stephanitz also liked little more powerful dog, but maybe we are over doing it a little? I bet you this dog could jump without hurting his back.
1920 sieger Erich v Grafenwerth

Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
 

I agree . This dog is a CZ import Hips Elbows 0/0 Spine Clear / According to DNA testing will not develop DM. 
 s825.photobucket.com/albums/zz180/BGSDGAL/

My GSD boy, Bruno, had arthritis of the spine and had OFA good hips. I even had them re-x-rayed at age 10 and they were still good. The arthritis in his spine didn't really start to show up until he was about 10 or 11 years old and it very slowly progressed. To look at him, with the atrophy and weakness in the back end, you would think his hips were bad. He lived to14 and during his last 9 months of life he needed some assistance getting up- I used a sling. The old boy had so much heart and still loved life and it was mitral valve prolapse/congestive heart failure that finally took him. He was German showlines.

My GSD boy, Bruno, had arthritis of the spine and had OFA good hips. I even had them re-x-rayed at age 10 and they were still good. The arthritis in his spine didn't really start to show up until he was about 10 or 11 years old and it very slowly progressed. To look at him, with the atrophy and weakness in the back end, you would think his hips were bad. He lived to14 and during his last 9 months of life he needed some assistance getting up- I used a sling. The old boy had so much heart and still loved life and it was mitral valve prolapse/congestive heart failure that finally took him. He was German showlines.

Hello,
I have not posted to this data base in a while but I came on today to see if anything was discussesd about spine issue.

We have just gone through a scare with our 9 mos gsd. @ 6 mos we took x-rays of hips and elbows as pre limbs.They were great for a 6 mos GSD. 2 mos later he came out of his crate and fell, still happy no pain just very week in Rt rear leg. After x-rays and much research he was diagnosed with lumbosacral instability.  There are many names for it. 

What I did find was how common spine issues are in the GSD. One vet told be in all the years (he was older) he has been dealing with the GSD he has not had as many issues with hips as elbows. He actually said the europeans have done a great job of weeding out HD. Because they euthanized dogs with HD it did not become as bad as the overlooked spine. Most people just assume the wk hips in an older dog are arthritis and never check the spine.

Another vet ( a neurosurgeon specialist)reviewed our dog. he decided that it was not the first diagnosis just a normal GSD spine. He explained that the "abnormal" L7 was actually normal for the GSD. He was a nice man with a good bedside manner. He explained it as the L7 being the last one to place itself and it sometimes gets confused where it belongs. Wether it wants to be part of the lumbar spine or the sacral and sometimes it gets stuck in the wrong place which causes issues. As for my dog he is in better shape then most , he had a nerve issue that has reversed itself.

Now I know we have all heard this before but they both stated due to the slope and length of the GSD it puts added pressure on the L7 region wearing it out faster.

I believe that we should pay more attention to the symptoms and find the cause versus catogorizing and medicating.
Lust because it is pain in the back end does not mean it is hips.

My two sense...

Sounds like he was diagnosed with a "Transitional Vertabra" --not all GSDs have it, but it does show up in the breed sometimes. It seems to make back issues more likely to occur. OFA will note a TV when they read hips--they'll remark it on the OFA certificate.

Here we go! Good old Fred Lanting!

http://www.dogstuff.info/transitional_vertebral_segment_lanting.html
 Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com