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by gsd39mr on 05 February 2010 - 02:02
I see that he is socialized-good. From what you just wrote I would limit the running with the other dogs for a couple of reasons; it's way too much fun for a puppy to play with the other dogs than be with you. All or at least almost all of his playtime should be with you only. Also it depletes their energy and attention for the training when you do it. You want him coming out of the kennel just full of it, ready to go. Use your food to get him to do things like sit and lie down, don't even use words for them yet-just food and praise. You can assign whatever words (German or English) later.
Jo Ann
Jo Ann
by Jackal73 on 05 February 2010 - 02:02
is hand signals to soon until after he learns german commands?
Whatever books or trainers you end up going with hand signals are actually first (after getting the behavior). Dogs don't speak English or German or any human language, we have to teach them, but they're really good at reading body language and learning from it. It's actually easier for them to learn the hand signal, *then* learn the verbal command associated with it. I'll echo everyone who says "socialization isn't the dog's regular routine". Strangers, strange places, strange situations (livestock, traffic, etc.) are all vital. Also gentle exposure (don't scare the dog, they can't learn when they're scared), and lots of positive reinforcement. It's far easier to teach the behaviors you want than to correct the behaviors you don't. And when the dog does make a mistake (because learning is a process of trial and error and mistakes *should* be made) ask yourself if the dog understood what was wanted in that situation before you correct. Most of what people characterize as "misbehavior" is because the dog doesn't know any better and/or hasn't been taught to control himself.
Also if you're looking for a free source of training try YouTube. You have to watch with a critical eye because there's a lot of garbage, but there are also lots of good examples of people teaching the basics on videos there. A class or professional trainer is great, but you can find the information on your own if you look for it. The only problem there is not teaching the dog, it's learning to teach the dog. (Seriously, I've been through multiple classes myself with different dogs, and the biggest help has always come from the trainer correcting *me*, and teaching me how to show the dog what was wanted, not teaching the dog.)
Whatever books or trainers you end up going with hand signals are actually first (after getting the behavior). Dogs don't speak English or German or any human language, we have to teach them, but they're really good at reading body language and learning from it. It's actually easier for them to learn the hand signal, *then* learn the verbal command associated with it. I'll echo everyone who says "socialization isn't the dog's regular routine". Strangers, strange places, strange situations (livestock, traffic, etc.) are all vital. Also gentle exposure (don't scare the dog, they can't learn when they're scared), and lots of positive reinforcement. It's far easier to teach the behaviors you want than to correct the behaviors you don't. And when the dog does make a mistake (because learning is a process of trial and error and mistakes *should* be made) ask yourself if the dog understood what was wanted in that situation before you correct. Most of what people characterize as "misbehavior" is because the dog doesn't know any better and/or hasn't been taught to control himself.
Also if you're looking for a free source of training try YouTube. You have to watch with a critical eye because there's a lot of garbage, but there are also lots of good examples of people teaching the basics on videos there. A class or professional trainer is great, but you can find the information on your own if you look for it. The only problem there is not teaching the dog, it's learning to teach the dog. (Seriously, I've been through multiple classes myself with different dogs, and the biggest help has always come from the trainer correcting *me*, and teaching me how to show the dog what was wanted, not teaching the dog.)
by captain32 on 05 February 2010 - 02:02
amazing,a little info helps me thanks,i have learned something tonite.cool
by Two Moons on 05 February 2010 - 02:02
People here can be very helpful...most of the time...................... :)
Welcome to the message board.
Welcome to the message board.
by LAVK-9 on 05 February 2010 - 03:02
Jo ann- I have to disagree with you on "You can't TEACH a puppy with physical corrections" I have taught many pups from 4 mo up to do all on and off leash commands and NO they weren't beaten down or depressed.It was in a possitive was of alot of praise incorperated. For sport people maybe that isn't the method used but from what I am gathering this is going to be a pet and he just wants it an all around good dog.SO yes you can teach a pup at that age with collar corrections you just have to know how to do those corrections and read the dog on what it is able to handle.Maybe some can't take it but you can't generalize and say that no pup can be taught that way.
JMPO
~L~
JMPO
~L~
by yellowrose of Texas on 05 February 2010 - 03:02
CAPTN: I am south of Tyler, Tex... first off: sit on floor for the next 3 weeks and bond BOND with your puppy..the reason your pup wont come to you is you are not BONDED to him...
Do not feed in the bowl for a while....use hands and feed out of hand....DO NOT LET PUP RUN WITH OTHER DOGS>>
BIG mistake...
Puppy is to bond to you and your kids and family...first PUP is confused.....do the bonding for 2 weeks with no commands..just love and praise and FOOD....develop the food drive ..hopefully has one...you use the FOOD drive to ignite the pup to come where ever you are...then after two weeks move to ropes and tugs in floor while feeding ......get the pups attention on you THE ALPHA and the MASTER.....
IN other words...lets get first things first....no books needed right now...all the dvd;s and books are for after you have the BOND .....then use the children to let them feed and sit on floor and love and pet and praise....massage your pup from head to toe every night after poop dutys.....ok gone now....you can pm me here anytime...I will see who is up by you and maybe get some club in your area....Dallas is in the hub to the south of yu...My hubby was from OKLAHOMA so we went thru Paris , where his Mom died in the Hospital there...so I know where you are....Uberland may know someone up your way .In fact I know she does...Hopefully she will read this...if not I will pm her..to pm you .
DO not worry but you have the horse before the cart....all we can tell without meeting dog and you..but this is a start...then go to LEERBURG.com and there are some puppy training dvd's you can order...
Do you know where your pup came from or his pedigree...????not that it matters now.
Just socialize with people not dogs....
YR
Do not feed in the bowl for a while....use hands and feed out of hand....DO NOT LET PUP RUN WITH OTHER DOGS>>
BIG mistake...
Puppy is to bond to you and your kids and family...first PUP is confused.....do the bonding for 2 weeks with no commands..just love and praise and FOOD....develop the food drive ..hopefully has one...you use the FOOD drive to ignite the pup to come where ever you are...then after two weeks move to ropes and tugs in floor while feeding ......get the pups attention on you THE ALPHA and the MASTER.....
IN other words...lets get first things first....no books needed right now...all the dvd;s and books are for after you have the BOND .....then use the children to let them feed and sit on floor and love and pet and praise....massage your pup from head to toe every night after poop dutys.....ok gone now....you can pm me here anytime...I will see who is up by you and maybe get some club in your area....Dallas is in the hub to the south of yu...My hubby was from OKLAHOMA so we went thru Paris , where his Mom died in the Hospital there...so I know where you are....Uberland may know someone up your way .In fact I know she does...Hopefully she will read this...if not I will pm her..to pm you .
DO not worry but you have the horse before the cart....all we can tell without meeting dog and you..but this is a start...then go to LEERBURG.com and there are some puppy training dvd's you can order...
Do you know where your pup came from or his pedigree...????not that it matters now.
Just socialize with people not dogs....
YR
by captain32 on 05 February 2010 - 03:02
the dogs are on the otherside of fence not alot of control i have over that matter,i will also will feed like you are saying and no training,thanks and will get back on the board tomarrow.stay in touch
by Vixen on 05 February 2010 - 04:02
Hello Captain, A variety of ideas here. Some similar some not. Even Trainers vary in their personal knowledge, understanding and experience. Which is why I suggest to potential clients to arrange to come and meet me, watch a Class to see the training in action, and then go and compare elsewhere too.
Advising and teaching with just the written word, without meeting and watching the Owner and dog is no easy task! When you can hear and see the Owner's interaction to their dog, and the dog's response to the Owner, it is far easier to read and guide.
We obviously do not know the full situation, however hopefully your dog does spend time indoors with his family/pack. Remember the Pack is important. I think you mentioned something about him perhaps having a go at your 'house-dog'? Would this be why you keep him outside? Again, unable to see this behaviour, but is it possible for you to make clear that this behaviour is NOT allowed and ensure that it STOPS? Taking them both out together on a leash walk could help them get to know one another in pack form. But you MUST be the one who says and ensures the boundaries of expected behaviour. No one should overly dominate anyone else within the human/dog Pack. Only the Leader(s) should 'call the shots'!!!
Interaction is important. This is where teaching dogs obedience exercises helps too. But remember you are talking an alien language to him! So guide and encourage and be consistent. Equally inbetween, helping him to learn from you about general good manners within your home, and with your family (and of course any other dog you own). It is not just about play! Yes, play is good but not to excess. Anyone can play with your dog including his litter-mates, but only a senior status member of the pack (a Leader) can teach the dog what is expected (just like a good parent). This good interaction bonds you together, he learns to listen and recognise you as someone important within the Pack Structure, not merely or only a play-mate or a candy shop distributor!
Hope this helps you (and your dog)
Regards,
Vixen
Advising and teaching with just the written word, without meeting and watching the Owner and dog is no easy task! When you can hear and see the Owner's interaction to their dog, and the dog's response to the Owner, it is far easier to read and guide.
We obviously do not know the full situation, however hopefully your dog does spend time indoors with his family/pack. Remember the Pack is important. I think you mentioned something about him perhaps having a go at your 'house-dog'? Would this be why you keep him outside? Again, unable to see this behaviour, but is it possible for you to make clear that this behaviour is NOT allowed and ensure that it STOPS? Taking them both out together on a leash walk could help them get to know one another in pack form. But you MUST be the one who says and ensures the boundaries of expected behaviour. No one should overly dominate anyone else within the human/dog Pack. Only the Leader(s) should 'call the shots'!!!
Interaction is important. This is where teaching dogs obedience exercises helps too. But remember you are talking an alien language to him! So guide and encourage and be consistent. Equally inbetween, helping him to learn from you about general good manners within your home, and with your family (and of course any other dog you own). It is not just about play! Yes, play is good but not to excess. Anyone can play with your dog including his litter-mates, but only a senior status member of the pack (a Leader) can teach the dog what is expected (just like a good parent). This good interaction bonds you together, he learns to listen and recognise you as someone important within the Pack Structure, not merely or only a play-mate or a candy shop distributor!
Hope this helps you (and your dog)
Regards,
Vixen
by 4pack on 05 February 2010 - 05:02
1st off- def do NOT use the choke chain on him if he seems fearfull of you already. Everything you do needs to be positive at this point.
2 What are you doing to show him a command?
3 Are you rewarding him with a treat?
4 Work on 1 command at a time, until he gets what you are wanting a bigger % of the time.
5 Don't do 20 minutes of training with him at one time, split it into many smaller (3-5 minute long sessions)
6 Doing hand signals at the same time as you say the command is fine.
7 I agree, use youtube puppy videos for free.
8 Your 6 foot leash is fine, now get a cheap nylon collar or whatever flat collar you already hopefully have to use with it.
9 Pick up some really irrasitable training treats or cut up tiny pieces of hot dog for rewards.
10 If your puppy doesn't like treats much, us his ball or frisbee (very good that he loves those) they will make training him a game, hopefully loosening him up around you.
Hopefully you answer the questions people have asked so that we can further give advice. Internet help is better than no help at all. I taught myself how to train dogs when I was a kid, with a book and no help from another person. If you want to do it and are honestly interested in success with your dog and teaching yourself along the way, you CAN do it. At least you are showing enough interest to find this forum and ask questions.
2 What are you doing to show him a command?
3 Are you rewarding him with a treat?
4 Work on 1 command at a time, until he gets what you are wanting a bigger % of the time.
5 Don't do 20 minutes of training with him at one time, split it into many smaller (3-5 minute long sessions)
6 Doing hand signals at the same time as you say the command is fine.
7 I agree, use youtube puppy videos for free.
8 Your 6 foot leash is fine, now get a cheap nylon collar or whatever flat collar you already hopefully have to use with it.
9 Pick up some really irrasitable training treats or cut up tiny pieces of hot dog for rewards.
10 If your puppy doesn't like treats much, us his ball or frisbee (very good that he loves those) they will make training him a game, hopefully loosening him up around you.
Hopefully you answer the questions people have asked so that we can further give advice. Internet help is better than no help at all. I taught myself how to train dogs when I was a kid, with a book and no help from another person. If you want to do it and are honestly interested in success with your dog and teaching yourself along the way, you CAN do it. At least you are showing enough interest to find this forum and ask questions.
by Keith Grossman on 05 February 2010 - 13:02
Jo ann- I have to disagree with you on "You can't TEACH a puppy with physical corrections"
Based on what the OP posted and the pup's reactions he described, I think Jo Ann's advice was sound. There are lots of things about this situation that don't sound ideal to me but I would much rather see him being too lenient with the dog at this age than overly controlling.
Captain, this isn't a dog yet; it's a baby. Kindness and patience will be well rewarded with a dog that will do his best to do whatever he thinks will make you happy.
Based on what the OP posted and the pup's reactions he described, I think Jo Ann's advice was sound. There are lots of things about this situation that don't sound ideal to me but I would much rather see him being too lenient with the dog at this age than overly controlling.
Captain, this isn't a dog yet; it's a baby. Kindness and patience will be well rewarded with a dog that will do his best to do whatever he thinks will make you happy.
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