Bill Fleischer-Are His Dogs Really All That? - Page 3

brix, I think that the kennel you ask about has very nice dogs and the best of pedigrees available in the U.S.

When I was searching for a pup last year, I did consider this kennel. In the end, I did a lot of research and found breeders with what I considered equal quality at a much lesser cost.

The breeder I chose ships bitches to Germany for breeding to the very top dogs there and then back here for whelping. I bought one of the 2 top evaluated pups in litter for what I thought a very fair price.

All I'm saying is that there are many lesser advertised/known breeders who can provide excellent quality pups at a reasonable price.

Also, anyone can produce a pup with issues. This is unavoidable.

Best,

Rik

Bottom line: don't buy a dog from Bill if you don't like his price structure. However, don't bad mouth him solely because of his prices--or based on what you've heard through the rumor mill (every story has two sides).  Strangely enough, considering the volume of dogs that Bill breeds/sells, one rarely hears of a dissatified puppy buyer. Bill surely must be doing something right!!

Have any of you met Bill at a show and and attempted to strike up a conversation with him? Really, he is very congenial--IMO. He will readily tell you that he'd rather "farm out" his breeding stock to family homes than to have them housed in large kennel/wharehouse conditions--where GSDs simply don't thrive.

I first met Bill nearly 20 years ago--never really got to know him. Except for a NASS or a USA SS, I've never seen him at a show/trial in Northern California--where we both reside.

However, he regularly attends shows and breed surveys in Texas. I have observed him to be very supportive of those who have his dogs and to be seen actively teaching them the art of double handling, etc. I've heard also that he is nearly always available for telephone disucssions. Not surprising--at a show, Bill's cell phone appears to be glued to his head--LOL.

DDR-DSH- Bill Fleischer was the COO of IBM.

Louise, I wouldn't dare bash someone I don't know, and even then probably not. The breeder that we got our dogs from has a Fleischer pup out of Rapi Supra and she's beautiful! Thanks again for the input!

I wish I had put it as clearly as Louise did instead of beating all around the bush.

I think the dogs/pedigrees are very good (from my limited knowledge). This kennel seems to only choose the best from Germany for their program.  

For me the puppy price was high so I passed.

Best,

Rik

I've met Bill several times.  always been a pleasant experience.  my "A" litter was sired by a male Bill had in Bell's Tx.  I had inquired about using one of his males,  but didn't have any money for the $800 stud fee upfront.  Bill called me early the next morning and wanted to know if I wanted to get my girl bred,  that if I did, I needed to be up in Bells, Tx in the next few hours.  He allowed me to breed my female with no money up front and I paid him when I sold the first pup.  I can say from experience the dogs he had in Bells Texas at Shirley's house were very happy, very taken care of.  I saw several litters of pups, young adults and the other adult dogs. they had the most beautiful well maintained coats, clean kennels and yes, each dog greeted Bill like he was their best friend.

this wasn't the only time I have had business with Bill.  I brought home the mother to VA1 Wupp Urbecke bred to VA1 Yasko Farbenspiel.  I was to co-own her and split the litter with Bill.  I was to be her retirement home,  but unfortunately she was very dog aggressive and almost killed a rescue I had at the time so I took her back.  Bill had been completely honest with me about her,  but I thought I wouldn't have an issue keeping the dogs seperated,  I was wrong. this dog was at Diane Merkel's home and again, all the dogs on the property were very well maintained and happy. even with this both Diane and Bill were both very nice and understanding people.


long story short, Bill is a nice guy, though all business,  and does import some of the best dogs to this country.  but people like me can't generally afford his puppy prices,  if you can, great!  you'll probably be happy with what you get from him.

like someone else already said, with as many puppies as Bill sell's a year,  you rarely hear of unhappy customers.  and thats rare for any large breeder.

The only consistant complaint I've heard from folks is about his prices...

Yes Bill's dogs are handled by other people... which on one side means he's not intimately involved in their day to day, but on the flip side, means that he has placed them in smaller groups where then can get the needed socialization. 

I bought a dog from Bill back 20 years ago, who developed dysplasia... he took him back with absolutely NO question, and I got another dog from him in return.  She was great, sound temperment and 100% what he said.  Though I was a semi-novice back then He spent a couple hours showing me the dogs he had, various pups, and young dogs... and let me choose what fit my needs from amoung them.  He seemed very knowledgable of the lines and his dogs... and except for the $$ and the fact that I'm more interested in working lines now than show I'd go back to him.

Hey, his prices are high, but he seems to get them... must be doing something righ.

is Bill overpriced?  for my budget yes,  but there are plenty of people who are buying puppies from him at those prices.

"Strangely enough, considering the volume of dogs that Bill breeds/sells, one rarely hears of a dissatified puppy buyer."

I will agree with that. I have heard a laundry list of complaints from owners who have bought puppies from other breeders in that price bracket.

I would like to say as a relative newbie to the GSD show world that looking for a reputable breeder that has consistent top quality breedings is very difficult to find at any price. Whether its true or not I am not sure but that has been my experience so if the only real complaint is price I would say that breeder is doing well.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" This is true and I believe you can love a 200.00 pup as much as a 5,000.00 pup but if you want a pup for showing I am sure there are vast differences and as far as not seeing many pups from him in the show ring maybe it isnt the pups who dont have the ability or the desire but the owners of those pups.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks

Joseph