William Koehler training methods - Page 3

Like any set "method" it has it's good and bad points... And a bit of intelligence is needed to pick and choose what you use of the Koelher training.  It also DEPENDS ON THE DOG!!  

I've a Yellow lab who shall we say is not the brightest star in the sky... A mild correction (if he notices it at all) will get you a blank stare and a "Who ME?"  reaction... Koehler works very well with him, as his behavior  seems to bring to him certain results... when he changes the result changes.  He went to puppy classes up to 6 months of age with someone else on the lead, and washed out.  For the next year the discouraged handler alternately ignored him, and yelled at him cause he didn't respond to what she felt were clear commands that her OTHER lab (a field bred  dog, while Jonah is show bred) knew in an instant.  Jonah became very nervous, hyper reactive and  often paniced if he didn't understand what was going on.  Within a month of living here he started to relax... Commands came once... the path to following the command followed immediately and the light came on.  WIthin a couple months the panic behavior, nervousness and such vanished completely, as it did with the Basset who was raised in the same way.  The "Come on hunny... do it for mommy" with goodies didn't cut it.

I also have a Sable Shepherd female from a rescue, who is brilliant, and extreemly tuned into her person.  She is a ball fiend, Loves the water... and tries to be 2 steps ahead of what you want her to do.  While I still use a modified Koehler method with her, the corrections are MUCH softer, and more often verbal rather than a hard lead command, and 100% of the time are followed up with MAJOR praise. If you speak in a hard voice to another dog she is sure that SHE did something wrong, so hard training is absolutely wrong for her.  

  The classes I taught were generally for young dogs (10 months to 18 months) who were untrained and acting out... and owners who mostly didn't have a clue.  I used a basic Koeler method of classes, but also threw in a lot of fun stuff like tunnels, Simon Says etc to keep it interesting and fun for both dogs and owners.  My standard comment was that I was 1/2 Drill Sargent and 1/2 stand up commedian.

 In those classes, as well as the training I did for a shelter with "last chance dogs" I used a lot of Koehler corrections.  They bring a quicker response which with both sets of dogs was critical.  I also learned that one good strong correction is better than 30 mild leash checks, and with a mentally sound dog can get them working cleaner and more independently.  Would I use it on an 8 week old pup... of course not!!  Nor have I needed to use it in most cases with dogs I've raised from pups as they learned to respond to me as easily as breathing... but for older dogs, or ones in a crisis of LEARN or DIE... absolutely...

I read the green, red and yellow books by Koehler when I was a kid with a dog. I often revert back to those learnings while I confront issues over the years. I agree with Tess, you have to read the books to appreciate Koehler. Koehler also trained without collars and leashes, so for the people with selective reading .. your really missing the best of Koehler. JMO.

I have noticed over the years on forums, Koehler's Training methods have taken a bad rap and anyone who suggests it ... you almost have to be silent on a show forum in regards to his training. It's nice to read here someone defending the man.

I think that's another reason people don't like Ceaser Milan, if you have read Koehler's books, Milan uses alot of Koehler's understandings. There's a few episodes I thought to myself he read the Koehler books.
 

"My standard comment was that I was 1/2 Drill Sargent and 1/2 stand up commedian."

LOL - I like it!

"Would I use it on an 8 week old pup... of course not!!"

Neither would Koehler - his MINIMUM is 6 months.

"I have noticed over the years on forums, Koehler's Training methods have taken a bad rap and anyone who suggests it ... you almost have to be silent on a show forum in regards to his training."

Ask them if they've ever actually READ him.  They haven't.  I was in an obedience class - in the 1990's no less - where the instructor at the beginning of the class specifically said that they wouldn't be teaching any such horrible methods, that Koehler's method of correcting a disobedient dog was to hit it hard over the nose with a pipe, and that he taught the retrieve by holding a dumbbell in front of a dog and pinching its ear until the dog screamed in pain and when it did you shoved its mouth over the dumbbell and that was the way you taught the retrieve.

As people gasped in horror, I said that simply was not true, and the instructor said that it was, that you could look it up in his books and that's how he taught: if your dog disobeyed you were to hit it hard on the muzzle with either a pipe or a wooden dowel, and you taught it to retrieve by pinching its ear until it screamed and you could put the dumbbell in.  I said I happened to have his books and that wasn't right at all.

>  Correct! In my 32 years of handling and training PSDs, the biggest critics are those who have either read very little, or have listened to others that didn't read his books thoroughly as well! I have used his method exclusively on several dogs I have worked and owned and have "NEVER" had to punish them any more than any other hard method.

>  Simply stated his approach is no nonsense! Once the K-9 knows the routine then he either does it correctly as instructed or he receives a correction. I will put any dog trained exclusively by his methods against any dog trained using any other method anytime, anyplace. As for not enough praising, again just "read" the book and you will see that EVERYTIME the dog does a correct routine, he is immediatly rewarded with praise!!

>  The so called "yank and Crank" method is an inacurate description fro so called critics. just take the time to read all of his books and you will see there is no unnecessary force used in any of his methods other than his problem solving. 

For many of us,(started training formally in 1971), Koehler was the bible in the 70's. His guard dog method is still in my possesion today. I still retain some of his methods today, though I have incorporated sport, police, and military techniques also. For sport I think most of his techniques are dated...for policework I think many of his methods are still very sound because ultimately with the police this isn't a game. Difference between Eagle scout and Ranger special forces, the training is different and much more demanding/critical in the game of life.

i used this method in the early 70's i competed in akc events usally place first..but a judge told me the hund lacked happines..and enthusiasm..so ichanged methods ..at that time i got winifred gibson stricklands book and things changed

I am far from a pro, but I do have a very reactive dog that probably suffers from both weak nerves and poor socialiation. We got her at 1-2 years old as a rescue. She used to try to go after other dogs on a regular basis. She meant business. I got a book called Feisty Fido, which decribed a simple behavior modification method to desensitize the dog. It basically involved teaching her a "look" command (look at me and get a treat). That is first taught at home without any distractions, then later outside in stress-free situations. I then took her near other dogs (not too near so she would react) and had her look at me, sit, give paw etc, for treats. As she relaxed, we went to the outside of dog runs, and I let her sniff noses through the fence. This was not early on in the process, of course. She needed to relax around other dogs. This took time, a few months of daily work. It helped a lot, now there are only one or two dogs she reacts to, and even if another dog barks at her, she rarely reacts. I also walk with her slightly behind me, and when we near another dog (not one that she still reacts to) I put her further behind me, and keep myself between her and the other dog. If I see one of her "enemy dogs" I turn and walk away. I can certainly control her physically, but choose instead to avoid a scene. She is capable of biting me in a frenzy. She is elderly, if she was younger, i would try to take this further and get her to relax around even the dogs she is still reactive agains. On Koehler, I have about half his book, and the early parts made a lot of sense to me. When he got to the more extreme stuff (stopping digging, etc) he lost me, and I have not yet finished the book. I have not used his methods myself, but more positive training and markers.