Anyone done the UKC protection (1) ? - Page 3

Eisen Faust, you were right. The FO is required before any other title I guess but there is so much info on the site, it is easy to miss that. Maybe they should put that on the actual P1 rules page.

I am all for the SDA program and find it to be far superior to Schutzhund.
The FO or Family Obedience has several practical drills that help with control in everyday life. This routine has to be performed before every other title as a check on control and temperament.
The protection titles are much the same as Schutzhund but they add in much more control and proof that the dog will only bite under command.  They add in a "friendly" greeting after the bite, where the dog HAS to be still and quiet while the owner shakes hands with the helper. Then there is a friendly greeting that turns into an argument. The helper kicks around things and waves his hands and throws chairs etc. The dog HAS to remain quiet and undercontrol until the owner gives him the command to bite. There are many more practical things that this organization has added and I believe are MUCH NEEDED!! Most SchH3 dogs could not pass with out practice and some could never pass because they are always right on the verge of being out of control. THIS is what will protect this organization in the future when bite training is being cracked down on! Why? Because they can PROVE that their dogs are friendly and undercontrol even in an agitated argument!
I have and FO on one of my dogs and have eager antisipation for this dog and the rest of my dog's to obtain their titles from the Service Dog's of America.  We will have a club opening soon here in Indiana and anyone is welcome provided they abide by the SDA guidlines.
Debby

I posted this elsewhere, but think it applies to this thread as well. This is quoted from the SDA site (www.servicedogsofamerica.com) - From the horizontal menu choose Rules, and then Trial Requirements in the drop down menu. QUOTE: "Title Requirements for the SDA/UKC Dog Sport Program (Protection & Obedience) All dogs must earn a Family Obedience title prior to any other Dog Sport Title. The Family Obedience title and either the Protection Alert or one gripping title can be obtained at the same event. Example, a dog /handler team could earn a Family Obedience title and a Protection Dog Alert or a Protection 1 at the same trial (Example - a dog can earn the Family Obedience and Protection Alert OR a Family Obedience and a Protection 1 titles at the same trial). Furthermore, a dog/ handler team could earn a Family Obedience Title and one more title in obedience, tracking etc at the same trial. In addition, handler/dog teams will not be required to repeat the Family Obedience routine for dogs that are also seeking the Protection Alert in the same trial since the obedience routine for both the Family Obedience and Protection Alert are identical. Gripping titles must be earned in order. For example, a Protection 1 (P-1) must be earned to go for a P-2 and P-2 must be earned to go for a P-3. Likewise, a Police Dog 1 (PD-1) must be earned before going for a PD-2. The exception to this rule is that a full time K9 Officer's, whose department accepts the Police Dog 2 title as certification, may pass over other titles and go directly from the Family Obedience to the Police Dog 2 title. Moreover, only one gripping title may be earned at the same trial. A dog may seek the P-1 title after obtaining the FO title and need not obtain the PA." UNQUOTE Also, if you go to the UKC website (www.ukcdogs.com), follow this progression of clicks... Dog Events - Dog Sport - Dog Sport Rules There are several sections that are relevant, especially "Rules applying to licensed Dog Sport Classes" and "Dog Sport Titles" Hope that helps.

"Most SchH3 dogs could not pass with out practice"

LOL, so you admit that most SchH3 dogs would indeed pass this training.  Of course they'd need "practice" or training to learn what to do, just like the dogs that compete in it now have practiced/trained/been taught what is expected of them, right?

I have no problem with a trained dog that bites when a hand is raised against him or his owner.  That's his job.  An intelligent, thinking dog who is going to protect his owner even if the owner has been incapacitated and cannot speak the word of command.  Not one who's going to sit by and be "friendly" just because his owner has been beaten or shot and can no longer speak the word to attack.

Not attacking until ordered to do so or until threatened.  You have to remember that the SchH dog is commanded to guard a person.  It's his job to see that the person stays put - if they stay put, they're fine, if they leave or if they attack, they'll be stopped.  And the Out command must be obeyed.  Looks like UKC is simply testing different things.  And therefore the competitors are training for different things.

The last 2 BH tests I've seen had very intense temperment testing.  There's no doubt in my mind the dogs that passed those BH tests are SOLID citizens who remained calm and passive in very high pressure situations, but as long as they or their handlers were not attacked and they weren't told to bite, they were calm and quiet, "friendly and under control" - and observant.

Not knocking the UKC stuff, but am whole-heartedly disagreeing with the implication that it's better.  Different is fine, but doesn't mean it's "far superior."
 

 

 

Tessj10, better, worse, are subjective. I have competed in both sch and SDA and see the good in both. The thing that I personally like about SDA is that the bitework is their to challenge the dog. In the SDA titles the dog is challenged at every angle and the helpers is soppose to try and see if the dog shows any avoidance, weekness and so on. The helper is soppose to test the dog and if he runs him then so be it. As a certified helper for SDA it is my job to make the dog earn the titles not just train for it and pass. he must have the proper drives in the bitework.  The higher the titles the more confidence I have in the dog that he/she is the real deal.

Oh crud, I just had a thought...does my dogs have to be UKC reg'd to attend? He's only registered under AKC right now,so I will have to hop to it if I need to do that. If I really get into this I might just skip AKC with my next dog and save my $. I don't like supporting those pricks anyway!

 The dog does have to be registered with UKC. I believe though SDA does provide a coupon for a discount 

Eisenfaust, thanks for the comments.  I'll try to find a UKC protection competition and go check it out.

4pack, you do not have to have your dog registered by the trial date. on the trial date bring his AKC number and full name and so on and they will issue you a TL# or Temporary License. This number then becomes your dogs number. After the trial you will definatley have to register him.

IM THINKING OF TAKING DINKIE OUT TO KALAMAZOO TO MEET THE UKC FOLKS.