best herding lines - Page 3

Sherry was always told to me that he was a "Herding Dog Sieger for 2006 & 2007 in Germany." He's called a 2x Sieger on Traumhof's website, also. So, is he NOT?

I wasn't aware there was a difference. I personally thought to be a Sieger the dog had to be a VA1, but that's national level.

Germany is liberally blessed with dog lovers and dog shows, so a dog can get a winner or sieger rating in a landesgruppen or lesser show than the national show. I think Sherry got a V1 at the BSZS, but you could look it up if you are that interested. A V1 is better than most dogs will ever do.

Hi Jill!

Nice to see a fellow NoDak even if we fled to AZ several years ago.  Minot born and raised.  The hubby was stationed at MAFB (god bless those basers).  Moved  to the hubby's homestate, just the thought of another winter makes me want to cry hahaha.  Good luck with the farm and the snow!

I went back and re-read the thread, katjo74, and I see what you are saying. I don't know Karen Priest myself, but her reputation is that she isn't given to exaggeration.  As to not doing herding and schutzhund with the same dog, there were shafermeisters in Germany who did just that. Not many anymore, I'll grant. And the SV no longer requires the sleeve bite in HGH as I understand the rules today. But protection work and herding aren't mutally exclusive. Or they didn't used to be (I blame political correctness.) Both require strong, directed prey drive and both require bitework. The herding dog also has to have a strong desire to please the shepherd. Both are genetic and can be bred into or out of dogs.

Hello katojo74
So you are the one that has Aragon.   I am familiar with his litter mate Anjo.  Another super nice male.

At  the BSZS, they offer a herding class for show. You will see  HGH in the classes GHK-HGH).  And yes Sherry won this  HGH show class TWICE!!
To be a HGH winner the dog would have to be entered in the BLH (Bundesleistungs Hüten.  This is the working competition for HGH titled dogs.  A few of these winners
were Winnie v Kirschental (1986), Amie v Kirschental (1990) and Xiewa v Kirschental (1994) There are quite a few more that Karl Füller won with, See Kirschental  History at http://www.kirschenbach.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=26
These strong lines are in almost all their females, as in their males.
HGH dogs CAN bite very nicely, thank you, but the HGH should be done  (I was told) before the SchH for obvious reasons.
When you start working your HGH dog in SchH, you may find that they bite but let go once the fight is over.
Yes Karl breeds to showlines, as well as working lines. BUT his focus will always be "correct" conformation for movement to work, and workability. Those that have owned K dogs KNOW the high intelligence that comes with these lines.
Not all GSDs are suitable for herding.  They have to LOVE the sheep, but still have the drives for a SchH dog. So I am told LOL I don't have sheep. For those that like studying pedigrees, go back on any of their dogs and you will see super strong dogs behind ALL their dogs.
Also please remember that Karl Füller was, until he retired, a shepherd by profession.  To this date he still keeps enough to work and train his dogs for HGH. ALL his HGH dogs worked with him daily at his job.   I am the proud owner of probably one of the last ones that I can ever get. My beautiful Zasara vom Kirschental, HGH.
I think I qualify to comment, LOL I have owned Kirschental lines since 2000, when I switched to all German lines. My line up included Salliena v Kirschental,  V Resa vom Kirschental, HGH, V Ganja vom Kirschental, V Orka vom Kirschental, V Occa vom Kirschental, V Gerro vom Kirschental, SG Kassie vom Kirschental, V Zasara v Kirschental HGH, and my little Occa offspring (a Timo Berrekasten grandaughter) Uschi. And I too have several litters a year.
http://www.alpenhofgsd.ca

NOW to the original poster, gsdjill, I strongly suggest that you let the Füllers know your needs so that Karl may evaluate the pups in the litter for the best one suited for your needs.
GOOD LUCK!

Yes, I'm Aragon's mom. Very proud of him, too. He's currently training toward his BH, which we hope to add to him by this summer. He will be 2 yrs old in September. I am working hard without a local dog training club or anything to train, show and title him to show return appreciation to the Kirschentals. It may not be to the level they  would like to see, but we enjoy him alot and are sincerely doing things with him to show he's a very nice boy. He's quite the HAM!
Aragon has a little more black on him actually than his Dad Sherry--down his shoulders and hips. He's a very nice Sherry son. I wasn't exactly ignorant when I waited for months and finally purchased a puppy out of Sherry and the female I personally liked, Zeckie. Druxie was nice and  had a Sherry litter 6 mos prior to Aragon's litter, but she didn't have in her what I wanted like Zeckie.
I'm not one to misinform purposefully about my dogs, either. They're my companions first and foremost. No need for me to try to make them out to be something they're not.
Amie is unique-have you noticed how dark she is compaired to the others? I think that's neat.

And yes, Kirschental isn't exclusively show line breeders; they sometimes use working lines. When they had our litter with Aragon, they were using a SchH3 IP3 sable working male with a blk/red female and a black female  for vom Haus Kirschental litters-was interesting (V Quay vom Haus Purkner was the sable male they were using).

I'll see if I can find that article written by the elderly shepherd, who smuggle a dog out of East Germany. When he took his dog to the Schutzhund club, they were all laughing at him behind his back.

Then his dog knocked the helper on his ass with his first bite.... 

I beleive Adolf Hitler had one of his dogs, if I'm remembering the article correctly.

(Wonders just why she never bothered to bookmark it....  )

HI  katjo74,
I am sure you are proud of him.  Excellent bloodlines indeed. And  also that the Füllers appreciate any work done with their dogs, above all being in a quality home.
Amie and Winnie too I believe, were bi colored, which you hardly see anymore. Zeckie and Druxie are two different types.
Druxie being more what I call the "limo" lines and Zeckie "herding lines" look wise LOL
With the strong herding background, even though they are beautiful, I don't really consider them showlines.
Herding is work, not just a practiced routine. Once trained they do have to make vital decisions on their own.  Plus the stamina of these lines is incredible, not to mention the high intelligence!!!
Then on the other hand, a good dog is a good dog, no matter what lines or color they are.  I t is always sad to hear reports of people being knocked down because they come to a club with a black and RED dog.  Pretty ignorant .  But it IS nice to see
these dogs show that it's what's inside the dog that counts, IMO Blessed is the club who looks at the DOG and works with what it has potential to do.
Mine are family first also, and all live inside my home.
Can you please send me your url so that I can see your boy up closer?  Thanks.

Without naming anyone, there is a  USA official who owned an Eiko v K daughter years back, she was extremely high drive, he told me at that time that she was the best dog he ever owned....Unfortunately she injured her back due to high impact on the sleeve......

Michele O...
I would like to comment on your statement...."When you start working your HGH dog in SchH, you may find that they bite but let go once the fight is over."  Myself and others that have trained HGH & SchH have not found this to be true.  Also, there use to be a courage test following the HGH run.  There are two dogs out there (that I can speak to) that have competed in the HGH multiple times & have their SchH3.  Kathy owns one of them as stated earlier in the thread.  Neither of these dogs let go once the fight is over and still worked sheep quite efficiently.  I own the littermate to Kathy's Elexa (Eian vom Quasliner Moor).  He has his HGH title twice and is currently working in Schutzhund.  Lives to bite the sleeve & loves holding on after the win.  Their mother has her HGH multiple times & her SchH2 working towards her 3 at the age of 9 (still hasn't slowed down).  Here she is:


These dogs are all from Ulf's kennel...again no problem holding onto the bite.

Susan