poor dogs on show at crufts - Page 3

mackenzie very well put about sums it up
jim h

Mackenzie your comments on 'Middle of the Road' judges are insulting to those of us who do not like the extreme types and the extreme handling that goes with it.  The last time I judged GSD's I put through to Crufts a very nice bitch of unexaggerated type, sound in mind and body, bred from a combination of Germanic and English lines.  I was pleased to see that the judge at Crufts awarded her a fourth out of ten entries, so she cannot have been that untypical or unsound in his eyes or he would have withheld as he did in some cases.  Your attitude is exactly what is wrong with the extreme Germanic supporters of today and I
fear for the future of the breed at all if this is the way you want the breed to go. I have voted 'Yes' to the split, mainly as I consider the extreme Engish Alsatians to be incorrect and feel they should be allowed to go their own way, but what you are saying is only a very short step away from the Germanic side not only going their own way but  splitting from the KC.

 The so called "middle of the road" brigade, have calved themselves a niche in our breed, similar to the way the Alsatianists have done. It is the ONLY way they can enjoy some success. They will not exhibit under German SV Judges, they fear exposure for what they are doing and what they are. They talk about "interpretation" of our breed standard and extremes, which is utter rubbish, the GERMAN SV, ESTABLISHED BY VON STEPHANITZ, CLEARLY AND VISUALLY ILLUSTRATE THE CORRECT INTERPRETATION OF OUR GSD BREED STANDARD, every year, at the largest single breed show in the World, the SV German Sieger Show. A DVD of the annual German SV Sieger Show is also available for ALL to see and understand. They refuse to, they cling onto their niche and their clique. PATHETIC REALLY.

Hello Jeevs

From what you have said you may not be as middle of the road as you think.  In any event there will be one or two that will be an exception.  If you are one of those exceptions then I am sorry that I have offended you.  However, you did promote a female of mixed blood and it would appear that she is more  Germanic than English.  A combination of the blood is not necessarily bad (although I would not do it) and you may remember one of the most successful blends coming from Cito v Konigsbruch and the Hendrawens Spartacist family.  In any event I, like most others, do not want extremes.

My attitude about the breed is that it needs a proper overhaul, in depth and it is time that the KC undertook this properly and allowed the breed to come into line with the rest of the world.  The breed standard as set out by the WUSV is specific, unlike the standard set out by the KC which leaves interpretation open for abuse.  If the KC applied some common sense and adopted changes to incorporate the more universal standard then there would be no need to split the breed, or, seperate from the KC.  Just changing the name by removing the word Alsatian changes nothing.  Many of the health issues can be addressed better by changing the system to incorporate compulsory testing e.g. Hips and elbows x-ray and to go further, include on registration papers other major problems e.g. stating whether the breeding family carries epileptic lines.

In my opinion,showing a dog under an All Rounder or a Middle of the Road judge, is suggesting that the Alsatianist's may have a case when in fact they have no case at all.  It cannot be right that the whole of the world thinks an acts as it does and yet the KC continues to refuse, or, consider the matter.   How can it be that the KC thinks it knows better than the rest of the world?

regards

Mackenzie

hi mackenzie i dissagree with you there buddy removing the name alsation removes alsatians so there will only be one type the correct international type if the name alsatian no longer exists the alsatian club of the UK would need to change its name general champ shows could no longer get alsatian judges because there are no alsatians every dog would have to be judged as per the KC version of the standard and assesed by that standard so the english type would eventually dissapear as there would be no shows to take them to.
jim h

dear mr payne i think your remarks re middle of the road brigade is a little bit insulting.i classed my first bitch as middle of the road as she was out of an english longhaired bitch by a dog who was born in quarantine out of a german bitch by a double sieger.this bitch unfortunately had a missing tooth so was not placed very highly under german judges.she was however breed surveyed class 2 and has produced animals who won at both open and champ.level under both german and germanic english judges and MIDDLE OF THE ROAD judges.so where the middle of the road judges wrong/ I PERSONALLY THINK THAT THE PEOPLE WHO CLASS THEMSELVES AS M.O.T.R.do so as they do not like the way the german side handle the dogs plus the double handling.ie.running around the rings like demented beings.dont get me wrong i do go under foreign judges as well english ones .NOT ALSATIANISTS.ihave showed animals uner your good self and so did a friend with a litter sister.both were pulled out first after the individuals but went down to second place.i dont agree with a split as i think that is giving in to the alsatianistsand letting them have their own way.as now they realise that a lot of the older english breeders/judges are now using dogs of mainly german breeding.and they now realise that they are not going to be able to win many cc,s so therefore there wont be many alsatian champions.on the cards.as for the double handling the english side are more subtle at their double handling.....using kennel mates or owners spouse to attract. most of the dire hard alsatian kennels dont even health screen.no hips or elbow scoring.the sooner the name alsatian is taken off the better.

Hello Jim H

I agree with you that the removal of the name Alsatian would mean that all UK Clubs using the name would have to change their Club name only.  At the end of the day they are still GSD's coming from the basic gene pool.  The Alsatianists would still be able to hold their own shows under KC rules and exhibit at General Championship shows and maintain the status quo.  In fact, at KC shows, we are all supposed to be judged under their interpretation of the breed standard.

If the the KC change the breed standard and the system to put us in line with the rest of the world then the Alsatianists would gradually disappear.  It would take time because the requirements of X-rays and health issues, which we follow on a voluntary basis, would not be undertaken by the Alsatianists to any large extent and, therefore, their breeding material will be dramatically reduced to nil.  To  achieve this end our breed need to negotiate with the KC in a sensible and reasonable manner with as much support material as possible.

As a matter of interest does anyone know who at the KC wrote the revised standard.  Was it some odd bod in the office, was it an All Rounder or Middle of the Road judge because it would appear that it was not a breed specialist.

Regards

Mackenzie

Hi Jim I agree with you, if the name bracketed name of Alsatian was removed from the KC registrations of our wonderful German Shepherd Dog breed then surely there would no longer be any need for the term Middle of the Road. MOTR from what? The only reason this term orginated was for those who did not like the extremes of either side as quite frankly neither do I. Without the name Alsatian we only have German Shepherd left so nothing to be IN THE MIDDLE OF (as it were). Regards Sue