Genetics confusion? - Page 3

if you are all talking about the dog in the picture,that dog is black and tan.any one who thinks the dog in the picture is sable eaither you have not seen a sable dog or you need to get your eyes checked.that is my humble openion. have a nice one.

Tig,

You're right, my comment was a drive-by and incomplete.  Sable refers to the agouti pattern of multiple color banding on single, individual hairs, not to a pattern on the overall coat.

 Baldursmom,


That link was very interesting.  I had never heard of a solid liver, and, frankly, I think that dog was absolutely beautiful.   Not in standard, but a beauty! 

I just had the pleasure of seeing one in person last weekend (solid liver).  According to her owner she was a totally unexpected development from litter and the owner did DNA testing to make sure her female had not gotten pregnant by a second male without her knowledge.  Everything indicated that the breeding was from the one male.

She did not have any health problems and bite quite well.  Beautiful animal, but as you said, there are not many around ~120 registered in the USA and with it being an unacceptable color, we won't see that number changing.

Baldursmom makes a critical point.  Sable is dominant but it does not obliterate the recessive gene.

If that recessive gene is a self-colored black, the sable tends to be more pronounced, and we tend to call the dog a black sable.

If that recessive gene is a B/T, then the sable gene gets expressed with much substantial tipping in all those places where the recessive gene would express black, and much less in those places where the recessive gene would express red.

NONETHELESS, I still have trouble believing the bitch in that pic is a sable!  Either the photo is wrong, or somebody did it with the milkman or I am going blind.  Because somebody with a sable gene got into that pedigree in that generation!

MVF,
did you see my above post? I stated that the female in question - Vienchen von Arlett is/was a sable. No milkman! She was identified by the Körmeister (breed surveyor of the SV) as a sable dog. There is nothing wrong with that pedigree because there is a clear sable line in there.
Margit van Dorssen, Vienchen's breeder is a respected judge and will come to this country on judging assignment soon. You (or anybody) can ask her directly, or just send her an email through her website www.arlett.de .

silbersee is right about the arlett dog.

i have resisted posting, since it's my puppy's pedigree being discussed.  i am posting now to give another example of a dog from a sable/ black& red mating.  this dog is basically unrelated to the 9 wk puppy.

here's a pic of her as a 4 week puppy, looking very 'sable-ish'.  Lots of black on her, body color somewhat mousy.


here's a link to a pic of her at 12 months ( and her pedigree)
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/551053.html

still looks very sable, but a saddle is emerging and tan is reaching up the legs.

now she is 18 months old, and looks much like a black & red, though the sable shawl is still there and shows some sabling on the thighs.   ( sorry, crappy weather = no recent pic)  She may end up not looking like a sable at all.

btw, she has a sable brother and a bi-color sister.

oops, my bad - they both carry vando moorbeck