Brains or Drive? - Page 3

But there are also many over the top drive dogs that go from place to place, shelters, or remain put up in kennels because the circumstances of any of those elements don't allow the dog to blossom.

But this is not make high drive a fault. There always have been GSD that were in the wrong homes and failed to blossom. Not every dog worked out in the 1970’s. Maybe what has changed is not so much the dogs, but the scapegoat. Maybe in the past people had the attitude that you can’t control everything when you breed a dog and sometimes a pup just sucks. People seem to have lost the ability to accept that sometimes bad things just happen.

From your post and others I am reading that some people believe that high drives dogs have innate problems and the production of high drive dogs is purely do to sport trainers. I think this is untrue. Nowadays dogs are used more for detection and building searching than ever before. This takes a dog with a lot of drive. Police don’t want a dog that does not have the drive to search all day. And this is a working dog first and foremost. What is more important to a working breed, working ability or pet potential?

Christopher what are you smoking today, because I want some?! No one least of all myself, are talking about pet quality dogs or dogs with no drive. Fact is, the dogs are changing, people are breeding something different. As far as my opinion, it isn't for the better or what is outlined as correct in the standard. Wether you like the change or not isn't relevant. My point is, it's happening. Is it better for the breed? With all of the focus on prey, what is being left behind?

 Just how many new ones does it take to get a high drive winner anyway?

I don’t know, but I’m sure it takes more than it takes to please a handler with low expectations.

Certainly, there were bad pups or pups that sucked in the 70's. Nobody said there wasn't, people who were back in those times have constantly said that they have seen a new type of dog evolve. Just like in the early seventies you didn't have the extreme conformation black and red showdog that was the only type that won. This has evolved over the past 30 years as a result of people breeding for this. Well, what's so hard to understand that some aspects of working lines have evolved also. Doesn't mean they can't be trained in the right hands I have said this time and time again, but some people gloss over this I guess to contest the point. But for people who SAW dogs in both periods they are saying SOME of the dogs have evolved to this point.We don't have to speculate on what they were in the 70's. Whether or not some of you believe this is your perogative, and nobody said the dogs couldn't work ....just a preference for balanced drives which I again repeat that is my preference....Peace.....People can view dogs anyway they want...whatever blows their dress up!!

Faults include anything that impairs working versatility, endurance and working competency, especially lack of sex characteristics and temperament traits contrary to the German Shepherd Dog such as apathy, weak nerves or overexcitability, shyness; lack of vitality or willingness to work; monorchids and cryptorchids and testicles too small; a soft or flabby constitution and a lack of substance; fading pigment; blues, albinos (with complete lack of pigmentation, e.g. pink nose, etc.) and whites (near to pure white with black nose); over and under size; stunted growth; high-legged dogs and those with an overloaded forechest; a disproportionaltely short, too refined or coarse build; a soft back, too steep a placement of the limbs and anything depreciating the reach and endurance of gait; a muzzle that is too short, blunt, weak , pointed or narrow and lacks strength; an over-or undershot bite or any other faults of dentition, especially weak or worn teeth; a coat that is too soft, too short or too long; a lack of undercoat; hanging ears, a permanently faulty ear carriage or cropped ears; a ringed, curled or generally faulty tail set; a docked tail (stumpy) or a naturally short tail.

I find this quite pathetic that you guys supporting drive go to the extent to falsely accuse those with dogs that have a mind to coincide with the handler rather than do as told. Though the handler should be the one with the mind and the dog should be the one with the courage, at times it shows intellect for the dog to think for itself. Very few times have I seen a dog with nothing but drive have a mind as well. However, I have seen one instance - DDR lines, of course (dont get me wrong though, I prefer my west germans, but ddr does generally carry a stronger sense of character and tought in this respect). Owning a dog with thought and intellect myself, I will gladly defend the opposition presented. I would take brains over drive any day.