Gentle leader... - Page 3

The "Gentle Leader" is a tool, like any other collar/harness.  Generally I HATE THEM... The only time I've recommended them is with a very headstrong dog, and a very small handler who lacks either the strength or will to give a proper correction with a choke or pinch collar.   They do get the dog under control, but unless the dog is an over the top drive dog I have found that they cow the dog. My training partner has a yellow lab who is a bit wacko... and she will do an obedience round with the harness on though it does nothing for her overall attitude. The dog basicly "wilts" when she even sees the Gentle Leader brought out. and sulks until it's taken off. 

   I prefer using a pinch on a headstrong dog... as well as the normal choke... I use 2 leads also.  The one on the pinch goes across my body and over my right shoulder, while the one on the choak is left in hand.  I give a correction on the choke, but if the dog doesn't respond quicky I give a sharp correction with the pinch then return to the choke. (chokes are always on loose lead unless giving a correction).   I dislike seeing pinches used as full time collar, as it's often a substitute for actually training the dog to heel on loose lead... and feel that the "Gentle Leader" is  used in place of training almost completely by most.

I have seen both ends of the spectrum,  dogs that leap into thier gentle leader and are happy to walk, and dogs that pout and sulk in them.  I've also seen a fair number of dogs vascilate between these two reactions depending upon which handler, owner, whatever is present at the time, which says a lot to me about the influence of how the person feels about using it.

Personally,  I like them for big strong dogs with timid owners.  The give a lot of control with very little strength needed,  when it's a good match between dog and equipment.

Some dogs pull and struggle anyway, and would do better with another tool.

Not a good choice for owners and handlers who are interested in building drive.   They are supposed to subordinate the dog, they are designed to work on pressure points that do just that.  So I can definately see how someone who does not want a dog with submissive body language would not like the results of a gentle leader!

Nope, no gentle leaders for my GSDs. I tried one years and years ago and all the dog did was paw at the thing.

A correctly fitted prong or pinch collar (same thing, just different names) need NO strength from the owner to work correctly. It's power steering for dogs. A choke collar can hurt a dog's neck. Not so with a correctly fitted prong collar. Herm-Sprenger are the best.

Gentle Leader..........................a poor substitute for correct training.

A gentle leader is not gentle.  It applies the same concept of the old style horse "war bridle" used on rank horses to bring them under control.  The pressure points at the back of the head and over the nose can cause extreme discomfort and/or pain.   

I agree.  Just think about the movement of this "tool" and the effect it has on the vertebrae just behind the head.  In my opinion it is not pleasant, definitely not gentle, and could possibly damage those joints over time.

What is a 'half check'??

this is a half check

Thanks, I was wondering the same thing.  Commenly called a martingale collar on this side of the pond.