Kaleef dogs - Page 3

Sam1427, I heard that there may be a big problem with having the GSDCA specialty show at Beaumont Texas this fall, since the roof was blown off, and it may not be able to be fixed in time. 

Preston, I heard that too, but AFAIK, they are still planning to have the show thereabouts. My vote was for The Ranch (Budweiser Event Center in Loveland, Colorado). Beautiful place, great grass field indoors, but it was held there last year. I went and had a good time. I don't' like this choice of site in hurricane country during hurricane season, but I'm just one voice. We'll see what happens, I guess.

July2000:"You must know that Dallas was on the road about 85% of his life, bred a lot (and I mean a lot) a females, was in the show ring every week-end.  This is not just one schutzhund trial in a year...It is 3 shows (and sometimes more) every week-end. He had a VERY stressful life so for me the fact that he died at age 10 is in fact very good!! He got old before his"

I have to chuckle, the work it takes to train, condition a dog, etc week after week in three areas in schutzhund or a day of herding or police work, cannot be compared to gaiting in the show ring....puhleeze.

My female, Rosewood's Hot Tamale was out of a dog that produced 2 GV.  I put her to sleep at 8 due to severe spine DJD.  SHe also bloated severely at 7.  Dam died of presumed mesenteric torsion as did her gransdsire Adonis of Anne-Isle (gastric)--at the age of three.  I don't blame American lines for that however--too simplistic. I loved her deeply. Her angulation and weak rear cut short her life.  I will never get another American Bred Shepherd as I the lines would not be happy in my household and I want to do dog sports, plus I have felt they have become the laughing stock of GSDs and have concluded that "Utility is Beauty" and the deviations from that function are tragic.  I chose a working line male for my second dog andn his athleticism is awesome and beautiful.

That said I did Like Dallas, may he rest in peace. 

Dallas has many progeny up here in Minnesota.  I hope he doesn't get "overused" like Lance of Fran-Jo did. Kaleef has also many dog's up here.

If there were no GSDs for working and police, etc ( A very sad day indeed) I would perhaps choose a dog from Todorhaus, Kubistraum, or Sim-Car (they have a lot of Jecoda lines) or Keylis.  All very respectable breeder's up here

Like looking for any dog, do your homework discuss openly and honestly your plans with the dog.  I wouldn't go to the Specialty shows however, I'd go to All-Breed Shows.  I know the ring is tiny, but I am not into that gaiting crap, you can see a big difference in the GSDs

The decision of which type of GSD to get depends on what you want to do with the dog. If you want to win in the AKC showring, you probably want an American showline GSD. If you pick German showlines and want to show AKC, you can do it but you will have to pick your shows and judges carefully and it will take longer to get the points. If you are serious about doing Schutzhund or ring sports or SAR,  you want a working line GSD unless you have a club already picked out that will work with German showlines and then you have to be careful which bloodlines you consider. If you want a beautiful GSD who can also work in tracking, obedience, rally, herding, etc. and just be a great home companion, you have a choice of certain American lines or German showlines. The Czech/DDR working line GSDs nearly always have a lot of energy and drive; they need a job more than other GSDs (who also need to be kept busy) lest they get into trouble. 

Just look for the titles you want in the pedigrees of the parents, grandparents and great grandparents. No, titles don't guarantee that your puppy will become a conformation champion and get a herding title as well. But it's an indication of where the strengths of that line are.  Whatever you are interested in, be sure to discuss your plans for the puppy with the breeder. In the case of Jim and Sheree Moses, they have been breeding dogs for years and know their bloodlines strengths and weaknesses.  Also consider that if you want a promising show puppy, he will cost more and the breeder may want a dual ownership. If you are new to showing dogs, it really helps to have someone mentor you so consider whether a breeder will be able to do this for you.

Just my opinion.

RamaGSD,

I don't want to argue on this but having done schitzhund myself, I know what it takes for a dog to train week after week..day after day..but being shown and campaign in the show ring puts a lot of stress for the dogs.  Don't compare if you haven't done it.  I do a lot of shows and have been with a lot of campaign dogs and it is not easy for them to travel week after week.  It is not the gaiting arpound the ring that is hard on them but all the other thing that comes from showing 52 weeks in a year!!  And please Specialty shows are not just a gaiting crap..I would never say that Schutzhund trial is just working crap and that the dogs works but look like Malinois and are ugly!! I respect everyone who loves this wonderful breed working or show.

I so agree with you Sam..There is a GSD for everything.  It all depend on what is your goal.  I know a lot of folks on that forum simply hate american GSD but it won't make them go away!! I think it's sad that we just can't find a way to understand each sides..I go see schutzhund trial and love it and I attend both Canadian and American National specialty and love it too.  I can see there is all sides to a GSD and that's why I think it is the best breed in the world..

You ( GSD folks working or showing)  should come to beaumont Texas( looks like it's going to be ok for the National) and see for yourself how dedicated the Am. GSD breeders are to this breed.  And have a look at all those beautifuls animals being shown.  It's a pleasure for the eyes..and a wonderful way to connect to each other.

Julie

Julie, I applaud you for wanting us all to get along, but, the American GSD is the last thing that Max von Stephanitz envisioned for this breed. Unfortunately the German showlines are going the same route.

On to Jimmy Moses: I think that he and his wife have done more to ruin this breed than any others in history. A lot of the dogs he shows are crap. Because he is Jimmy Moses they win. The judges are so intimidated now by his success (I hesitate to use that word) that he always wins. How long has this been going on and how long will it continue to go on? He could bring a mutt in to the ring and it would win AND EVERYONE WOULD BE BREEDING TO IT THE FOLLOWING WEEK! TOTAL CRAP! Jimmy also decided to sell a dog to Andrew Hunte and show it for him. Hunte is the man that brings puppy mill puppies to each and every one of your local pet stores. What a complete ASSHOLE! BOTH OF THEM! While I'm on the subject Carmen Battaglia should be shot also. He has been going to Hunte's breeder's conferences to teach the puppy millers how to produce more puppies. ANOTHER COMPLETE ASSHOLE!!! GET THESE PEOPLE OUT OF THE BREED AND YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY SAVE IT!

OGBS, the last National I went to somebody said Jimmy Moses could show a hamster and win. He's getting too old to show at the National anymore. Art Sinclair had the winner last year. I'd forgotten that Moses sold a bitch to Hunte, but everyone knows it. Add Cappy Pottle and Gloria Birch to your list too. The American GSD won't come around to its 1950s and '60s excellence again until certain people are out of breeding and that will probably only happen when they pass on. None of this changes the fact that some of the dogs most of these people  breed are actually quite nice, not extreme or sickly, dogs. You can get a good American bred GSD, but you have to know what you are shopping for. However, I have a German puppy.

 Actually I have won against Jimmy when I showed my bitch in the US.  Of course he is well known like so many other professional handlers and sometimes win when he shoudn't.  That is the dark side of showing..Politics!!

I'm not going to put on trials Jimy Moses or others and say they are assholes!!  I have known also people in the GSD working world that are pretty much assholes themselves. BIG ASSHOLES!!

Crap has been done in german and american lines...you just have to read the messageboard on this forum (and i'm about the only Am breeder here!) to see that assholes are very well represented in this site..and it's a working GSD site.  breeding too earl, no hip and elbows done, breeding agressive dog(but of course they will say it's ok), selling with no contract, no papers etc etc....do I need to continue?? Oh and yeah...talking about Max Von Stephanitz like he's there next door neighbor!! Common..

Stupid breeders are everywhere on this site (sorry for those who fells targeted!).  Just look at the ads..you have enough!! I just can't beleive that you put you head in the sand accusing Am. Breeders for all the shit that is going on with GSD.  Lots of people on this board don't even know what they are talking about...but breed anyway..It's a real shame!!

JMO

Julie, You are correct there are assholes everywhere in the dog world. I am speaking of specific people here and the damage they are doing and have done to this breed.

As for American vs. German I really don't care. I like what I like and others can like what they want. Conformation, to me, is a joke. It's really just an afterthought in my opinion for a working breed like the GSD. I will say this about it though, how many dogs will be shown at the Nationals in Texas? Probably about 100 or so. At the WDA North American Sieger Show? 500 or more! I think that speaks volumes!

The WDA show last year was much smakller than the GSDCA national specialty show in Denver.  I was at both of them.  At Denver there were only a few GSDs I liked, one sable and some black and tans.  But they were close to the standard IMO.  In general I liked the VA and V GSDs at the WDA show much better (shorter backs, better proportions, more bone, better croups, better feet, much better color and type (especially sex type differences with very masculine males, and more energetic, confident robust temperaments).  I just prefer the W. Germ,an showline bloodlines and some W. German or Euro working lines.  But for certain there are some american shepherd breeders that breed sound, healthy dogs with good temperament.  I just don't like their looks or type in general (with a few exceptions--as they nowhave really become a separate breed).  I have known some ASD breeders and seen their GSDs close up and tested some green to see if they would protect their home, car and family.  There are always exceptions to the rule.  I have also seen some WL Euro GSDs that are so hyperactive, nervous and snaky that I can't stand being around them, and some SL W. German GSDs the same. My local police buy Czech border GSDs and while I don't like their looks as well as the w. German SL dogs, they do have impressive bone, good joints, good feet and thick pads, masculine heads, good pigment and incredibly correct working temperament (super sound, stable, easy going & calm but alert, a bite like a steel trap and fearless).  I have seen a few that looked fairly good and most were so impressive in temperament, vitality and robustness that almost anyone would love to own them as a 24/7 house dog. Nerves of steel would be a good way to describe the Czech border patrol GSDs used for police in my area.