Interesting article, please comment... - Page 3

Very thoughtfully written article.  I have been "scolded" by various people through the years when I talk about the protection phase of Schutzhund being obedience.   I would like to see other tests also.   One of the difficult aspects is it can be so hard to find a good training club, for any of the "working tests/sports" that starting a new "style" would be almost impossible.

I always thought it would be interesting to see somebody stand in the very middle of the field and send the dog to random blinds.  How many could do that?  Obedience I know, but still something different.

Ekvon I like some of your ideas. As well I am totaly impresed by Andy I saw few of his videaos and the dog is a full package.

Hi 4pack

Vera is his wife, it shows a strength of character and true conviction to break away from his countries kennel club, stand up to them and form his own club.

I am very interested in his methods and hope one day he and his wife will come to the UK .

Pam

Yes I understood that with her second email. She said their daughters name is Michelle. I guess the test is not available, I was not offered a copy of it. That's a shame, I was hoping to learn something new.

''We were just talking about this and one thing that came up is ScHH the decoyer is always in the last blind  and every dog knows that. But what IF they had two decoyers?  and one decoyer was a friendly person? Then what? How clear headed would that dog have to be?  or what about people on the field as the dog is running the blinds doing distractions?''

Hi EK last week I was looking through some old SV mags from the sixties in some of the photos whilst dogs were completing the courage test at the sieger there were various people ie. a lady with a pram walking across the test area

do you or anyone else no why this practice stopped

Pam

Testing dogs in more unfamiliar situations have been done for a long time in some of the nordic countries as an example, so that´s is nothing new really. Both standardized test for civilian dogs and similar but more freely done for dogs used for police/military and other work. While these test could be a good complement to a sporttitle, it´s still doesn´t say all about the dog and nothing beats the hand on experience of seeing a potential breeding dog and it´s offspring  in training and ordinary life by yourself, if you are a breeder.

While that's true, it would still be very useful to help narrow the selection of dogs that the breeder may want to consider, before viewing them first hand.  Many well known studs are noted for their various contributions in breeding, but not all, and it would be very convenient to have a standardized format of information about them, one that is based on the evaluation of a third party official, rather than a biased owner's interpretation.  I would even be more willing to breed producers without working titles, if information like that were available to tailor to specified needs.

Hello Jennie

"While these test could be a good complement to a sport title, it´s still doesn´t say all about the dog"  No , it does not tell all but it would reveil more about the dog's true temperament and weaknesses. And yes "Testing dogs in more unfamiliar situations have been done for a long time in some of the nordic countries"  and one only has to look at thier police dogs  to see what is working and then look at ours to see what is not.

Why do you think every American police department wants to import dogs? it is because we are using a Sport to test most of our dogs AND OR trainers are not inprinting or training the dogs in real life situations. Thus we are sending 100s of thousands of dollars over seas in dog that are failing to pass their test!

Off spring does tell a lot of what the parents will produce but having some sort of testing is needed to see the traits of the dog. I personally want to know if the  dog I am thinking/going to breed is a fear biter or not clear in the head. I don't want to wait to see if the puppies are going to tell me that. If that was the case the Shepherds would be worse off then they already are.

Pam  I would like to help you with that but back in the sixties I was not even being thought of LOL !!!!! (try the seventies :) But from what I have read,heard and seen in pictures if ScHH was more like the old style ScHH I would be more interest in it.

EK

One thing i would like to mention about titles for some people to check out are the new AWD titles from the AWDF.  In protection there is there is an attack out of the blind on the handler in the first level.  In a awd 2 there is an attck on the the handler from a second helper. The tsb is a numerical rating (1-10 10 being most pronounced if you will)  Tracking adds different articles (awd 3 uses real world articles such as keys  wallets etc)

With any breeding titles are not the only measure of what dog shoul or should not be bred.  They are part of the puzzle.  Often when I hear of people that think that schutzhund is a poor test for breeding it makes me wonder if they are really just making an excuse.  

I don't think max did too bad of a job

IMO

Jeff

I don't think max did too bad of a job"   I agree he did not  but what has happened over time well , IMPO it is just a sport now where money and politics run the show.

EK