What is worth more $$$$$$ - Page 3

I like how everyone throws numerous variables into a question.  To answer the original question, I would agree with many on here.  It is all in the eyes of the beholder.  I don't need a PPD, so the price is very low for me.  BUT!!!!  If my family or myself were in serious danger/risk, I wouldn't mind paying the price for a well trained dog. 

I don't need protection and I have never looked at a sport dog as a true protection dog.  Those two comparisons never exist in my mind.  I don't get confused.  The sport world is a bit different than PPD dogs.  Most of the people that buy PPDs are people that don't know how or want to do the training.  Some have no idea what it takes to complete a dog. (This is one of the reasons there are so many mediocre trainers and dogs sold to innocent people)  

With Trained Sch3 dogs there are probably a few different classes. 

-Realy expensive well trained dogs for higher competition

-Dogs on their last leg and are in search of a breeder because the handler has moved on.

-Dogs with mediocre training or skills that the handler needs to move for a better dog.

-Dogs trained for sale.  Ya gotta wonder about these because the traing could be compromised due to quick training.

I'm not saying that good/young Sch3 dogs aren't out there for sale, but ya gotta wonder why someone would sell such a wonderful thing. 

Ahsighee,

I dont think you really understand the PPd world, so here goes. You need to understand PPD that I put out are the real deal. They will protect you and play with your kids the next minute. Listen people need to stop thinking that all PPd are trained by people who are scammers, and people that could not make it in sch. I know some trainers that have never competed in sch but I know are twice the trainers than some of the front cover podium trainers. They chose to go a different route than the sport route.

You talk about people spending $12,000 dollars for a dog to guard a $150,000 house, but the people who are buying these dogs are not always living in a $150,000 house. I have seen sch3 sell for $300,000 dollars now who was scammed.

This thread is not about good or bad trainers, it is all being the same the dog apedigree and quality of training which is worth more.

Next question: The Max vision is a dog of beauty while working, with form and function. So should a sch dog be considered a working dog or a sport dog. And should a PPD/PSD and so on be the only ones considered working dogs?

Once again I am looking to start pissing matches just quality well thaught out discussion. Thanks

Next Answer:

I think that you have an argument for both sides.  Neither one is a police k9, sar, cadaver, etc. etc.  Neither one goes to work on a daily basis.  After the training and sale of a PPD, how much work does that dog do?  Possibly none.  I should say, hopefully none.  The Sch dog at least goes to the club a few times a month.  Is that work?  No, but he is out doing something.  I know your gonna say that the PPD is working 24/7 keeping his owners secure, but he is swimming in the pool and having fun with the kids, not standing guard at a post. 

I know that a Sch dog is not a "working dog".  There may be a time that the dog does protect you, but I really doubt many in the sport think that one day Sparky is going to track the neighborhood pedophile and apprehend him while doing it with focused obedience. 

Like a 9mm pistol,  the PPD is not something you go into battle with.  You may have it around for personal protection, but if there is a job to be done, the ak47/m-16 will be issued.

If you asked the question, which dog would you feel safer around your kids?, I would say the PPD.  I would hope that he is trained for real situations and I would know that he is going to do his all to keep them safe.

I was introduced to working dogs through PP.  While learning there, the trainer always talked badly about this wierd named training, Shootshoond.  I met someone involved in that sport, was invited to visit the club and loved it.  I like both venues and there is a need for both.  As long as our GSD keeps doing something worthwile, I'm happy. 

by the way, your last line states that you're looking to start a pissing match.  Either you forgot the word, not, or you are looking for a well-disciplined debate.  If it's the pissing match, please wait until after 8 pm and I've had a few beers in me.

Also wanted to let ya know that the Badgers suck.

If I were a single woman, and still living in the Detroit area, I would most definitely go for the well trained PPD dog.  As it is, I have 3 GSD's (two sport trained) and a Rottie mix.  It's enough of a deterrent in my area which is fairly rural.  If I had $20,000 to blow now it would be on a sport dog.

Good post Don and a good thread!

 Edited to add:  LMAO!  That was a low blow Don. 

Also wanted to let ya know that the Badgers suck.

EisenFaust:  "...This thread is not about good or bad trainers, it is all being the same the dog apedigree and quality of training which is worth more..."

And that is all based on what the owner/buyer is looking for.  Somebody with the $$$  extensively involved in Schutzhund would spent whatever it took to get that special dog.  While somebody with $$$ that wanted a PPD would do the same.

I've seen those high priced Schutzhund dogs that did not live up to their reputation.  I have also seen PPD's where the buyer got taken.  

As far as working dog, some Schutzhund dogs are working.  Serious on the field, but have that "off swtich" when they are off the field.  Strong solid nerves that are safe in any environment with all ages of people.  Some Schutzhund dogs are sport dogs.  Super high drive, almost over the top.  Not bad nerves, just not as solid when off the field, the off switch is a dimmer, not an off.  I've seen some LEO K9's the same way.  Family dogs at home, take any where.  While with others anyone but the handler had better stay away.

Don't forget the HGH dogs too.  Not the type of herding seen most often in the US, but the real deal herding.  Those dogs truely work, and protect the shepherd and flock while they're at it.

As far as beauty....  You will never get an agreement on what a beautiful GSD is.  I think my working lines are beautiful while others have called them other things....  Too many distinct lines now.  Am Shep's, German show lines, and working lines.

Don,

You are right I forgot to put in I am NOT looking for pissing matches. Now about the Badgers comment: i will just say lets wait and see how they do this year in Football.

You are right I did forget to consider other working avenues like HGH, sorry. 

This is for you working dog breeders; (yes I have free time today).  If you could choose to breed to a super and I mean super PPD. This dog heels backwards better than some do forwards, bitework is awesome power, intensity, control and the bite is like a vice that just gets deeper and harder. The dog is a ten super bone, size, solid black and a great pedigree, truly a dog in a sch trainers hands would be sch3, IPO3 and so on. Or do you just breed to a sch3 with solid working temperment.

Once again paper over actual working ability, knowing that 85% of puppy buyers will not see either dog work!

Go Packers!!!!!!!! Or I guess Go Jets!!!!!!!

Neither of them is worth money to me. I rather get a pup and train it from a scratch at least I know what  I am getting. I am pro PPD but not fully convinced either since schutzhund looks like fun (too much bull at local clubs though). My current breeder/trainer is involved in PPD, not a big fun of Sch (because of the politics) but trains dogs for both. His dogs are all PPD. Oh yeah he said it him self that he would like to see PPD going more formal so that there could be one well known standard.

"...Once again paper over actual working ability, knowing that 85% of puppy buyers will not see either dog work!..."

85% of puppy buyers would be more impressed with the Sch titles.  That's why you see adds with things like "great grand parents were Sch3!"   Of course if the seller is good, a PPD dogs puppies could be marketed just as easily.

BTW, your avitar is great.

Oki this will sound stupid...

What the hell is Avitar? lol