BEAUTIFUL WITH TITLE.. - Page 3

http://www.gsdca.org/GSDReviewed/tdogs/TrollRichterbach.html

They used to exist for certain (SchH-titled American champions); whether or not any American CH person would even venture into Schutzhund territory due to hostilities shown on this board nowadays is questionable. And I can't say I blame them. Some people can be very rude-even when there's no reason to be.

Any GSD should show some degree of working ability, yes.  I've found US Champions Sch-titled, but not necessarily AKC Champions (Jim vom Fiemereck).

Having a mere CH title means what it means; it means the dog has structural decentness when put up against some publically known and approved standard for the breed. But it does not prove the workability of the dog-no more than a mere SG conformation rating. It's about the same, except the CH does take longer to achieve. That's what I ended up getting called an idiot for on another board. lol. The truth is still the truth.

SG Fido vom Deuschland a1 is not a bit more breedworthy than CH American Canine OFA-Good, unless you are just biased and approve of German verus American lines, or vice versa. Neither have proven any workability with those noteworthy achievements. Only when things are added AFTER the name can we then see both a conformation AND workability desirable for the GSD.

I think this was one heck of an Am. GSD: U.S. GRAND VICTOR CHAMPION Mar Haven's Color Guard
R.O.M., R.O.M.C., H.T., P.T., T.C., and A.O.E. O.F.A. GS-44054G24M   GS-EL5281

 Frankly, it appears that the real problem here is defensiveness from the AKC afficionados who want to "justify" their camp.  It is not necessary, or even fruitful.   AKC herding and and HGH is not really even apples and oranges--it is apples anc kumquats.  Herding instinct is little more than "will this dog chase the sheep around a pen"?   The answer is almost always yes, unless you have a real spook.

Even in the herding instinct tests, I think the schutzhund folks want to see something different than the AKC folks do, becauase we understand what the German herders are often looking for:  they want to see the pup actually grip the sheep, not just chase it around.  My male's behavior at 8 months with the sheep had the schutzhund folks cheering, but probably horrified the AKC folks present: he chased the sheep, grabbed one, and took it down.  He pinned it there and looked around like, "Now, what?"  The herder then made the mistake of hitting him with the PVC crook and boy, it was ON!.  They ended up battling over who was going to have that crook, the crook was broken and the herder backed into a corner.  As one long-time schutzhund person said, "He never saw a sheep before and may not have been real clear that he was only supposed to chase it, but he had no questions about dealing with the man."   The herder liked his response to the sheep,  but said it would be viewed as "aggressive" by AKC standards.  

My old schutzhund bitch didn't respond "AKC normal," either.  But, that may have had something to do with me screaming, dropping the leash and running away when that thing with horns shot out of his holding pen.   She kinda went for the ram, or whatever he was, that I had sorta identified as a threat.

They both got a HIC for their responses, btw.

 Funny you have picked BOSS (Color Guard). I will be breeding one of my bitch to one of his son..And the beat Goes On.

Probably one of the best overall (for temperament, working ability and structure) he had it all..

Nia, you do have a way with words. 

July9000, Yeah, he is in my pup's pedigree also, (Samuri's Cody Banks is my pup's grandsire). Cody is not too shabby either..

 Mystere, 

AKC didn't make rules just for the GSD. That is why there is a difference.  You must know that there is diferent herding style..

When AKC made their rules for herding they didn't ask the SV and all the other Club for all the other breeds to see what they we're thinking about.  They made their rules for the AKC. (more than 200 breeds!!)

I agree it is mixing apples and oranges. In AKC you have different kind (duck-sheep-cattle). And those dogs Have a HSAS wich means Herding Started Course. It's not just a HT.

July this is Cody's littermate:

UKC GR. CH/Int'l CH Samuri's Pixel Perfect, TC, RN, CD, NA, NAJ, OA, HIC, CHIC, OFA H&E GS-73264G25F-PI, GS-EL18623F25-PI

 

Wow very impressive.  Do you own this dog as well??

Not that many people have the 200+ sheep it takes to participate in HGH. So, they do what they can. I believe a conformation dog should have SOME form of working title or certification, and at least a herding instinct test will show whether the dog has at least adequate enough prey drive or not.