WOULD YOU JOIN CLUB THAT HATES SHOW DOGS? - Page 3

Thanks Deeswolf.

I think they are just saying things in general.

And I think my female is real good prospect for work.

I think that is there general opinion and I am going to give it my all to show them how she can earn a schutzhund title. I show up everytime. And my

dog loves to go.

The helper has been very good in working her. Has given me very good advice so far. He also, really

makes effort to help.

I think I will continue on and see what happens.

My dog has also made great improvement with just a few visits. So, I am sure they don't want

to run me off. Perhaps they are just giving there general opinions.

I obviously got a good dog, because no one has said anything bad about her. It has been all positive.

And I want her to be a working dog, not some sissy that needs to be flagged into the sleeve.

I have seen some conformation dogs who are very weak in all phases. I do know also there are some working dogs who

don't have what it takes. Sometimes it depends on the dogs.

I am really excited and ready to do whatever hard work is involved and I won't give up. My dog really needs that much out of me.

NO.

I wouldn't join a club that "hates" ANY dog... PERIOD. A good dog is a GOOD dog. End of discussion.

SS

Glbtrottr,

Having lived for several years in the Chicago area myself, though I recently moved to California, I am familiar with those 2 clubs you slammed, clubs you claim only liked show dogs. I know the people in both of those clubs and from what I know, what you said is not true, at least about only wanting show dogs in their clubs. If you go to their websites, you can clearly see that each club has working dogs in it. The club west of Chicago which is also a breeder sells working dogs and trains them for the police. As for the other club where the guy "made no bones" about only liking show dogs, that club not only has working dogs in the club, there is also a Malinois which is a club dog. This does not jive at all with what you claim.

Also you say, you were told by both clubs your dogs would never work and yet, both of your dogs had IPO3s, one 8 times over. It is certainly hard to believe. I would think that any dog which has passed its IPO3 eight times could show anyone it could work. Since you were just trying to learn about schutzhund, obviously you did not put the IPOs on your dogs and have no idea whatsoever how it was done. Are these dogs, by any chance, those dogs you started a thread about--the ones you bought from a disreputable owner that that maltreated and starved them and they were half dead when you got them? The ones you posted pictures of? If so, no wonder you were told they would never work. In the condition shown by those photos, they were lucky to be alive.

Zuchwart, not quite.  Hardly "slamming".  What I stated was our experience, with friends and others around who recall the interchanges, thank God.

In any other sport or hobby I deal with, be it flying, scuba, racing, parachuting, martial arts, etc...newbies are treated with a bit of special care and given the benefit of virtually every doubt.  And every one of those tends to be life or death if someone screws up.  Newbies are most often welcome and mentored by design.

In Schutzhund, the vibe has been considerably different. 

Whether a club is "awesome" or not, to me it's irrelevant - how they treat their prospective members speaks volumes.  If you don't like newbies, close your membership.  If you don't want to spend the time to train a brand new person and their guests, let them know on the phone this is probably not a club for them. Simple. If they go through the trouble of showing up and paying fees, treat them with respect.  THEY'RE NEWBIES.  Being newbies granted us a lot of latitude - including not knowing better about a dog's weight, condition and abilities.  Thankfully, many have taught us better now...and none who helped us came from either of those experiences.

To each his own.  I expressed the experiences we had, with ample detail - and some people don't like the truth.  Ray may have a number of people who have learned from him and respect him - and that's great for Ray.  His showline bent and attitude of working dogs is well known.  That works for some.  The statement that "the dogs would never work" before he even saw us or them work...was Ray's and Ray's alone - why would he say that? Who knows.  He took one look at the dogs and made a statement before testing them.  Afterwards, Ray and the helper said "those are really nice dogs." I quoted. After meeting Ray once, and being invited back, we would hardly have an axe to grind. The club was just not for us. This was our FIRST Schutzhund experience. There were no Malis or Working lines.  We went once.  There may be others in that club; we only saw 4 people with dogs there besides Ray.   This isn't from "looking at their website" but rather attending in person.

As for the "malnourished" comment:  On the day we went to Ray's, we took two bitches:  one at 68lbs who at her best is supposed to be 68, and another bitch who was 72 at her best and showed up at 69. Both had current health certs.

The helper left Ray then for a reason.  We saw him at another club evaluating whether he'd be allowed in.  A more humble and reasonable person in Schutzhund I dont find often.  I hope he joined the club I saw him at - they would certainly appreciate him.

The breeder West of Chicago made it clear "showlines were the only way to go".  Again, this was the second club we had attended. How we stuck around in Schutzhund with such miserable experiences is amazing. If they breed dogs for the police, good for them!  That is one club that I would personally never recommend to anyone...they may have okay dogs (we saw none that did better than ours - and that's before we learned much), but their ethics and prejudices are...laughable.  My lack of experience, then and now, has never been the question.  At least my dog wasn't forced to collapse from heat exhaustion as other "more experienced handlers" allowed that day.

Between arrogance, condescension, prejudism, divisiveness and more, what a pain in the rump for *any* newbie with skin less able to show up and put up with.  Newbies are the future in any sport - treating them like crap to serve one's own ego serves no purpose, whatever the excuse, unless they do something reckless and unsafe. 

Y

I don't think I would join, but then again if your dog is able to do the sport prove them wrong.