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by Held on 03 July 2008 - 20:07
IF the dog does not have any drives ok i have heard it all that it can still do shutzhund.so i guess iwas right that any tom dick and harry or harriot can have an openion.but go to Mike deihl site and see the black son he is trainig and also go to Sportswaffen i think the name of the dite is he is got a brawnson son go to euro sport they have his son under there studs there is a brawbson son apolice dog in germany these are some of the examples and i am sure there are a lot more but start here and watch these dogs work although i am expecting a lot here but you can not blame a guy for trying.have a nice one and untill next time.also i do not call people names i just give my opinion.
by PowerHaus on 03 July 2008 - 21:07
Held,
Naw, think you called me an idiot! You are just a negative nelli anyway so I don't take much stock in it. I have read alot of other posts you have made and it is funny how so many of them you call people an idiot or degrade them because they have an opinion.....I know your type, married it! Anyway, the way you conduct yourself or the way anyone on here conducts themselves for that matter, though they maybe anonymous, attests to what their character TRUELY is!
The drives I am talking about are the drives that are typical for a working dog. I bet Ivan, or T, or Debbie Zappia.... could take a pound puppy that does not have the "typical" drives you and I look for in a dog and still title it!
I am willing to change my opinion upon seeing some stable dogs from Brawnson, but do know what his hip scores are in Germany? I will look at all the dogs you listed above.
I maybe ignorant but I am not an idiot! An ignorant person can learn! I am willing to learn! Anyway, there are so many truely great dogs in the US and Germany, why must this dog be line bred on 3-3 anyway!?!
Vickie aka Harriet (Little House On The Prarie is one of my all time favorites!)
by k9sar06 on 03 July 2008 - 22:07
Brawnson's OFA rating was done at 63 months...that's over 5 yrs of age and being a PDK9 does horrible things to a dogs hips. I don't hold the OFA Fair rating against him. Both his of his parents and grandparents all are GOOD or EXCELLANT.
by PowerHaus on 03 July 2008 - 22:07
OH, one more thing to think about.......a 3-3 linebreeding on a dog with a
ZW 96!
YIKES! WHY? The German Showline people breed like this so I guess it is ok.
Vickie
by PowerHaus on 03 July 2008 - 22:07
At least when I did a 3-3 linebreeding it was on Aly Vordersteinwald and his ZW IS 66!
Vickie
by PowerHaus on 03 July 2008 - 22:07
Something I found when I googled Brawnson:
Stig writes:
I don´t know if brawnson is a good stud or not but it´s important to know that the dogs winning big competitions are not only winning because of their superior genes, they have very skilled trainers that also is a big part of the success, therefore we shouldn´t overvalue a dog just because he is winning trials, as a breedingdog the dog placing not so high could be equaly good or better, the trainer has a lot of influence which dog places 1st or 15th.
don´t know if brawnson is a good stud or not but it´s important to know that the dogs winning big competitions are not only winning because of their superior genes, they have very skilled trainers that also is a big part of the success, therefore we shouldn´t overvalue a dog just because he is winning trials, as a breedingdog the dog placing not so high could be equaly good or better, the trainer has a lot of influence which dog places 1st or 15th.
Stig said exactly what I was trying to say!
Vickie
by PowerHaus on 03 July 2008 - 22:07
This is actually a pretty good thread.....says some good and some bad but is informative none the less:
http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/54588/page/4/fpart/1
Brawnson's ZW has been as high as 102! He has produced a female of the Enckhausen (sp?) kennel that had a ZW of 113!!!!!!!!!!
Vickie
by 4pack on 03 July 2008 - 23:07
LOL Vickie, I just read that thread a couple hours ago. It never came to a solid conclusion either.
by k9sar06 on 03 July 2008 - 23:07
Breed Value Assessment Number |
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| The best tool for breeders in the fight against canine hip dysplasia (CHD), to come along in years, is the SV's HD Zuchtwert, or Breed value assessment number (HD ZW). The HD ZW number is an estimation of the probability that a dog will produce progeny with CHD. The HD ZW value factors in many variables in the calculation, but is based mostly on the hip status of a dog's progeny. This is the critical factor in the usefulness of the HD ZW. The dog's own hip status is only one of several important variables in the equation, not the sole determinant. This is because it is possible for a dog with excellent hip status to produce a majority of progeny with CHD. And conversely, a dog with Fair hip status can produce a majority of progeny with excellent hip status. Without factoring in this critical look at the dog's Genotype (what his genes pass on to progeny) in addition to his Phenotype, (what his actual hip status is) real progress can not be made in reducing the incidence of CHD. So how does it work? Each dog registered with the SV is assigned an HD ZW number at birth, based on its Parents HD ZW numbers. After a dog is x-rayed, its own hip status is factored into his HD ZW. Upon producing progeny of his own, the results of the progeny's x-rays are then factored into the parents HD ZW numbers. The HD ZW number is not a static value. It fluctuates depending on what the dog produces! This is what is important: A dog's Genotype; What the dog produces. Not his Phenotype; what his actual hip status is. An HD ZW value of 100 has been set as the breed average. HD ZW values LESS than 100 mean the dog produces fewer progeny with CHD than the breed average. A number greater than 100 means a dog produces CHD more often than the breed average. So HD ZW values less than 100 are desirable. HOWEVER, the focus must still be on the Total Dog. Breeding decisions need to include much more than only a dog's HD ZW! Working ability and Temperament are most important! To allow for this, the SV requires that the calculated HD ZW for progeny of a desired mating be 100 or less. So a bitch with an HD ZW of 80 can be bred to a male with an HD ZW number as high as 120! The pups of a breeding like this would be assigned HD ZW values of 100 at birth. So HD ZW values Less than 100 are not just desirable, they offer greater options in breeding partners. Additionally, stud dog owners can prove their dog's prepotency by accepting breedings to bitches with high HD ZW values. For breeders in the US, you must register your dog with the SV or USA/SV, and have the dog's x-ray evaluated by the SV for 'a' stamp. This also settles the PennHIP vs. OFA vs. 'a' stamp question. The diagnostic method to determine a dog's hip status is not relevant. The most relevant data comes from a dog's actual production, "Do his progeny have CHD or not." There are several sources to obtain data on an individual dog's HD ZW value. The SV website has a search engine which allows entering a dog's SV registration number, or parts of the dogs name, to obtain the HD ZW. This site maps that feature in the "HD-ZW Search". You can also buy the data on CD from the SV as a one time purchase, or as a subscription updated quarterly. This tool is a must have for every serious breeder! And now, every puppy buyer can have additional, useful information, regarding the potential for a puppy to develop CHD. by k9sar06 on 03 July 2008 - 23:07
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