Selling multiple littermates - Page 3

I am going to say one thing on this and that is this, Yes I was the person who took the puppies to do the initial potty training, and crate training.  The fact that this family is a bit better of than most has nothing to do with anything other than someone being able to sell them 3 puppies at $2k a pop.

I did not know this family well enough to tell them they were making a mistake, I felt the breeder should do this it was not my place, AND the breeder DID NOT EVER TELL HER NO.  If she did then why did they have three puppies?  I had teh puppies for about 12 days and then they went home, after 2 days the family realized they were way too far over their head.  They called me and asked my opinion, I told them three was way too many, and to call the breeder, they did, the breeder was "shocked" and offered only a partial refund.

Yes I can understand under "normal" circumstances that most breeders do not give a full refund, however this is not normal circumstances, this is totally different than normal.

As an advocate and supporter for AB1634, who spent countless hours last year defending "responsible breeders" this is very upsetting to me.  I wrote numerous letters to assembly members, congressman and senators stating that we,l Schutzhund people are RESPONSIBLE breeders and this to me is ANYTHING BUT!  First selling that many MALE littermates to a novice family, and then refusing to take responsibility for the transaction. 

If the breeder was so adamant that she said NO the three puppies would never have been sold to the family.  This was not what happened. This family is absoulutely devistated that they must find a new home for one puppy, and how do they decide which one?   This is difficult and the breeder is nowhere to be found to make this situation better.

I have offered to help them find a good home for Dante, the one they have decided to find a new home for.  In my opinion he is the smartest of the three, he learned potty training very quickly, and is a nice dog.  He does however have four white feet, and a 1/2" white tip on his tail. I informed the family that he should be sold as "pet" quality and that recouping her initial $2k was going to be difficult.  She is not concerned about that, she wants him to go to a good home. 

In my opinion this is entirely the breeder's fault, and responsibility, she should have looked passed the dollar signs and jsut plain said NO.  ~Kari

And one other note since people asked where were the trainer and family members?

This breeder knew that I was going to take the puppies from day one to do the intial potty/crate training, she then went to the home of the family and told them, they really don't need a trainer, they can handle it themselves, they had plenty of room.  Mind you these people did not have have one kennel let alone 3.   So our plans for me to take the puppies initially were changed, which was fine with me.

I offered to meet them at their home the day the puppies came home to help them set up their crates, establish a routine etc.  After two hours the family decided I should just take them to ensure they were started on the right track.  I think she was a bit overwhelmed at the idea of being up 2-3 times a night.  So I did.  After 12 sleepless nights they went home, and after 2 days home the family was just really overwhelmed, all family members, but also should mention the children are only home from college for the summer, the breeder also knew this as well.

As far as them understanding the pack mentality and need for each pup to have their own time, they are starting to understand and I am trying to help them make this a happy dog family.  Kennels are being built, and they are very concerned and listening to advice being given to them.

I think they are going to be fine in the end, but they are looking for a home for Dante.

I hate to say it Kari, but in my experience, I know quite a few breeders involved in Schutzhund and show who are anything but responsible breeders. They talk a good line, but when the chips are down, they breed litter after litter, sell to anyone with money and as long as they can get paid, could care less about the pups, say they will take a dog back and never do, etc., etc.

Sure, there are a lot of irresponsible people out there who are not involved in the sport or show, and, of course, there are many responsible breeders who are and are not involved. I too initially thought that  those of us involved would be among the most ethical of all and want to be good ambassadors for the breed. I soon found out how wrong a view that was. It is sad because we ARE and should be the real advocates for the breed. Instead, all too often, people in this sport are the advocates of greed and who gives a damn about the dogs......

Just today here I saw an ad placed for selling a male. The ad talks about having to get "rid" of a dog and they will take just about anything in exchange. Just using the word "rid" suggests to me they could give a damn about the dog.

<So it is ok to let the person dump the puppy in a dog pound?>

Of course not.  It's never OK to dump a dog at the pound.

Is it ok if the puppy comes back to the litter carrying parvo?  Vaccines on board or not, puppies can get all sorts of problems, including deadly ones. 

On a personal level I would not breed at all if I didn't have the ability to do my own rescue.  From the persepective of someone unable to quarantine an animal, I understand putting the needs of the many ahead of the needs of the few. 

I've been rescuing other breeder's dogs since 1984.  I have been breeding since 1994.  Your rescue argument does not fall on deaf ears.  What I'm saying is I hear and respect srilankagsd's perspective.  He won't take a pup back into the litter unless the pups are greater than 4 months of age.  This is probably his best option available to him.  It's a little harsh to call him irrespeonsible.  If he doesn't have proper quarantine facility he his being very responsible.  Washing hands and keeping in a different room doesn't always prevent disease transfer.  Some things are air born.

Sometimes, I think that the demise of the breed is the irresponsible breeder (even with dogs having decent credentials) who has one or more in-house studs who breeds every bitch on the property to the same male solely with the motive of having puppies to market.

 Ditto Louise, you are right on target and these people are also responsible, in part, for the decline of all aspects of the breed. But they don't care and so nothing we say or do will change their attitude. It is, in the end, only about money for so many, just like in most areas of our lives.