SchH vs PSA ...an observation - Page 3

If you desire to have a civil dog trained in protection then you must accept the responsability and the liability that goes along with it. While the more serious dog people could handle a dog trained in PSA this might not be the best choice for the average dog owner. Lots of variables to consider from the dog, the type training and the abilities of the owner and so on.

The good news is that most any training is good for both the trainer and the dog and builds self esteem and confidence of both.

Ugly get a clue, this thread was started by the OP who is sick and tired of people  like you running their mouths about how they think one sport is better than another.  I  find you laughable - you have done NOTHING in any sport, your "knowledge" is based soley on what you read on the internet.  It's easy to critisize from your armchair, come talk to us when you actually get your ass out and trial.

Bob brings up another good point.  Most people who compete in schutzhund don't go out and do any set routine, except of course, during a trial.....of course you would KNOW that, if you actually participated.

As far as being bitch-slapped, where did that come from?  I said nothing about anyone being bitch slapped. 

As to the original topic, I agree, different strokes for different folks. 

As the saying goes, "United we stand, Divided we fall."  We are all involved in protection sports and should be standing together to protect our ability to do this instead of fighting over which is better or more real. 

Lisa

http://www.zutreuenhanden.com/

http://www.southmichiganschutzhund.com/

Bob...A very misleading statement.

SchH people Like their sport. Most & I mean Most like 90% Dont crosstrain, work body suits, Hidden sleeves or any other routine, But SchH.  I did more inquiring on this, not just in my state but in my region & this is largely the case.  SchH is a Purist Sport & Its fine. Its a thing of great beauty to witness a good dog perform.

PSA in comparison is a Bastardized, Hybrid, Cross training Sport. The emphasis is ON Protection, alot more realisitc & with no tracking work. 

I dont favor one over the other. I can say even using this boeard as an example in SchH  of the idiots,  the pervasive corrosive attitudes, downright mean spiritedness & vitriol that you see hear, you see throughout SchH. Ive yet to witness any thing like this in PSA. Quite the contrary.

Sue.. Oy Vey.  I have every right to run my mouth about something that i have experience in.  I attended 2 SchH clubs for over 2 years & have been apart of PSA for 1 year.  My experience is limited but my life experience, of people interaction & judging of character, is not.      

I did my best to compare them, as the Sports, AS thats Precisely  what the Poster asked For, you freakin moron.   FWIW-In SchH, I like watching the working line dogs work.  No where did I criticize those that perform SchH or did I criticize the sport.  Even if I did, Its not really any  damn business of yours.  Ive that right, Ive seen alot of dogs/people come & go & Criminals in the business.   Hope you got your sheckels worth reading my post. Its really people like you & Super Bob that are the problems with the Sport. Quick to mouth off, quick to rush to judgement, quick to criticize or even try to belittle others. You & those like you are a sad, pathetic  bunch.

"IMO why can't everyone respect eachother's sport and respect that, that is where their interest lies instead of putting it down to create an excuse as to why you don't try it?" (OP)

No one asked you to compare them,  no one asked for your opinion on which you thought was better, which brings us to:  what makes you think anyone cares about your opinion?  Your opinion isn't even your opinion, you repeat  what you have heard others say that you think  sounds good, hence your stupid remark about schutzhund being controled by showline folk.  Oh but you say you have watched for 2 years, wow, I guess you must know it all then.

"My experience with SchH has Not been good. Im taking it up to the higest level & see where it goes." (UGLY)

Let us know when you rocket your way to the top seeing as you have it all figured out.  I'll be happy to eat my words about you if that day ever comes, something tells me I don't need to be too worried.  

Dearest Uglydog:

                                          I,m glad to see you put in the time to call all the clubs in your region, and watched for 2 whole years but I did,nt here you say what you attained? did you work a dog? did you title any thing? sounds like arm chair quarterbacking to me. You try to paint your picture with a big brush and few strokes but what you miss are the details.To make a statement that 90% don,t  cross train well some people don,t call it cross traning there is nothing to cross some people just call it good training. 

In the words of a wise vulcan Uglydog live long and prosper. 

I believe my only response was the Macho wording that still I find funny,  and to each there own thats what it,s all about you do your thing I,ll do mine they will do there,s and some time we will all meet on the journey. Oh buy the way I don,t consider it a sport it should be what it was designed to be a breed wothness test, If you have read any thing i have posted before I,ve always railed against the SPORT.  

Sue..This is a Bitchslap or backhanded comment, whichever you prefer. Were you born stupid or just practice alot?

You intellectual Prostitute. The F*ckin Title, in case you are Blind, in addition to being Stupid, is...... PSA VS SchH.!!!

Notice & I emphasize.... VS. As in.  Versus.    As in Comparison.   As in... Jane you ingorant Slut.  Wake up.  Remeber the Sat Night live skit?   You were born to play that part, Sue.

Im not the brightest guy in the world but I sure as Hell know what a comparison asked for looks like & I can identify it. 

My Beef with SchH, Ill state it again for you, as you like to put words (and your own ideas from the voices talking telepathically to you) into peoples ideas & posts..   My issue with SchH is how clubs are managed. They dont give a Damn,. Criminal Record or not.  People get conned, duped, dogs get ruined. They dont care. Ill do what I can to change it.   Thats my Beef, Got it?

My dog, through some of the trainers at SchH clubs developed issues. Shes not a working breed, Ive learned a great deal of the what  not to dos & thankful I didnt spend thousands only to have her over pressured, beat on, made 'civil' and rushed to the point of developing avoidance issues that we've worked through with the good trainers at PSA. 

Bob Ive yet to title at SchH, dont think I will with this dog.  Id like to PDC her in PSA.  And thats that.  Ive titled in the German Organization Umbrella JGHV,  & also UKC HRC.    I can say that Ive probably watched 400-500 dogs in that time.  I dont claim to be an expert, But I have done Both Sports in dedicated fashion.   I had worked GSDs in PP years prior to doing this go round at SchH.

Guess the title gave you too big a boner to actually read the original post to understand what OP  was talking about. 

And I LOVE it, you are blaming the trainers for your dog washing out, how typical, and what a load of crap.

Sue...you really are the definition of Stupid, arent you?  I now think its genetic & something you practice here.

Of course I didnt train my dog to bite.  Its really simple.

Tim Helser was the trainer at the last ScH club? He is the one I refer to. He has 84 criminal counts. Animal Cruelty, Criminal Trespass, Impersonating an Officer etc.   He has ruined dozens of dogs, nice dogs-Pits, Bulldogs, Sheps.  He misrepresented himself to me & others. Said he had titled 13 SchH 3 dogs. I believed him.   People on here will attest to it.   His methods are horrid, he has conned many unsuspecting, trusting people, from widows to single moms out of thousands  $$$ & he hasnt a clue how to train or develop a dog, I had to learn the hard way.  Most importantly, his character is that of a bottom feeder, parasitic & above reproach. Worse than yours even.

This has been brought to SchH USA, they really dont give a Damn.   Thats why SchH  USA to me will remain a 2nd class organization.  Until  it performs background checks,  monitors club ongoings, & associations with affiliate clubs are based on respectable members, trainers & Results, this is my conclusion.  People like Helser ruin the Sport, but SchH USA doesn nothing about the Helsers of the world

This topic  isnt about the people but the dogs.  Back to dogs.  Here is PSA 3  & Below is a SchH3 dog trial. Different Strokes..

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPkTEnMJKG0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiJj9_J84m0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXQ19_7EtEg
 

The topic is about how stupid it is that people like you can't seem to get it through your thick head  that different people like different sports - it's not about trying to prove one is better than another, that's just a childish game you like to play. 

I don't care if your TD was Charles Manson.  I belong to many different organizations none of which run background checks on members, but you think UScA should run background checks on members??  That's ludicrous -  GET REAL.   It is ultimately your responsibility to make sure your dog is being worked correctly, not UScAs.  The overwhelming majority of people who act as helpers, training directors and any other club officer in UScA are hardworking, giving people who do this out of the goodness of their hearts and a genuine desire to help people in the sport, and most times it's a thankless job.  On top of it they have to suffer fools like you.  Now, according to YOU,  you had tons of previous knowledge about grip work, but now you play your dumb card when it suits you to say someone "ruined" your dog.  How convenient for you.  Plus you are talking shit about an entire organization when your personal experience is limited to one club.  Sour grapes and crocodile tears.

Finally this topic is certainly not about UScA, but if you don't like that organization join another like DVG or GSDCA-WDA. Or go soley with PSA or  maybe try Mondio or French or Belgian Ring sports, you could move to Europe and check out KNPV. There are lots of different venues and I'm sure you will find plenty to whine about wherever you go.  What is important is that people do things with their dogs, like Nike says "Just Do It".