Head Shaking in prey drive on the sleeve - Page 3

My wording was a bit off. I understood it in my head before realizing it probably sounded somewhat redundant to other's. IMO there are no different kinds of fight drive, just one, with different ways to express it. Whether it's shaking, pulling, growling, etc. etc.

My girl is 18 months young and just started on the sleeve.  The helper said she was over the top and had too much fight, that she needed to focus on biting the sleeve correctly.  I thought she looked Great, however I'm not experienced in Schutzhund so I'm glad to hear others think it's good too.  She has only worked the sleeve about 5 or 6 times so I think she needs to learn how to hit the sleeve to get a better bite right off the bat.  I have noticed sometimes she repositions to get a better bite.  But I like the fight she brings to the sleeve.  My thought is she should try and tear him a new one.  If I'm in danger, I don't want her just to hang on while someone beats on her, I want her to kill him or at least try.  Maybe I'm over the top too. :o)  Because in real life attack, if someone came after us, I'd find something to beat him with and help her out.    

It's like those scarry movies you watched as a kid; the bad guy or monster keeps getting up and coming back after you.  I don't believe in stopping to look over your shoulder, to stop shooting until you've emptied your clip, etc.  I believe in engaging until the danger is eliminated and/or down for the count and NOT going to get back up.  Of course for most of us, this is a sport/game for the dogs and the dogs most likely know the difference.  In a real life fight, if their owners life was endanger, I believe and hope they can tell the difference and act accordingly.  But I like the extra fight in them because to me it shows their heart and they have the grit to "Get er Done". :o)

Teri       

Teri, I think your helper is a little off. Of course she needs to bite the sleeve in the proper spot. It is the helpers job to make sure a young dog learns to target this area. Yours has only been on the sleeve 5 or 6 times so your helper should be making sure that your girl is only getting correct bites. Doing this by way of exact sleeve placement and using the stick to back her out of the bite if she hits the front of the sleeve or elbow.

Better to have"TOO MUCH FIGHT DRIVE" if you can have such a thing than not enough. You can always train the targeting of the sleeve, the carry and everything else. Just my thoughts on it.

Thank you Dutch Boy.  I know she is still young & has much to learn, I'll try her with another helper and see what they say.  This helper likes her a lot but has his own idea's about the sleeve.  She is very obedient, tries very hard to please and is a fast learner.  She isn't crazy at all, just full of energy and drive.  That is only one of the many things I love about her.  My 22 week old pup, half sister of my older female worked on the puppy tugs Sat. for the first time and did very well.  The helper really liked her too and told the breeder she should have kept her. :o)  I was very proud of my little girls and told the breeder she wouldn't be getting them back. :o)

Teri    

Teri, I've found that most helpers today are all into "THE GAME" when it comes to bite work. I'm not into that. Most of these style helpers can't train a more agressice dog and will tell you that it's not a good candidate for schutzhund. It's not that the dogs not a good prospect it's just they don't know how to train these types of dogs. Asko von der Lutter was this type of dog and we all know what he accomplished in the world of Schutzhund. Try and find a helper that will train both the prey and civil sides of your dog. One that can keep both sides in balance. These are hard to find these days but a few of them are out there. Our helper trains this way. The dogs in our club all do very well in bite work. Most going "V" in trials. The other nice thing is that they will also bite when there is no sleeve. Which to me shows the best of both worlds.  You'd be supprised how many people, who have their own training groups, will come to him to work their dogs saying that they need help with barking or to solve confidence issues. This is because they are all preyed out and just want the sleeve.

Hope you find one for your girl.

I live in Florida (Orlando) area do you have any suggestions for helpers that teach/work the dog in prey & civil?

Thank you

Teri   

remember prey protection is not good Thats what teri in ealrier post was outlining

cheers

"Teri, I've found that most helpers today are all into "THE GAME" when it comes to bite work. I'm not into that. Most of these style helpers can't train a more agressive dog and will tell you that it's not a good candidate for schutzhund.

 I don't think making it a "game" is  a bad thing. You have to at least get the dogs feet wet (correct technique) full grips, targeting correctly, carries for the unload. Most "sport" people don't want or need a civil dog and starting out civil with pups or young dogs is going to ruin more dogs than you can shake a stick at.

It's not that the dogs not a good prospect it's just they don't know how to train these types of dogs. Asko von der Lutter was this type of dog and we all know what he accomplished in the world of Schutzhund. Try and find a helper that will train both the prey and civil sides of your dog. One that can keep both sides in balance. These are hard to find these days but a few of them are out there.

 I highly doubt Asko was brought into civil or even prey aggression right off the bat. Ah ha, you said it "balance is key". I agree 100%. My dog has been worked in prey since 9 weeks old, only seeing small doses of civil stuff from our decoys. Now at 26 months he's telling us it's on, he's not gaming anymore. Can't tell you how relieved I was to see it but a bit scared on the other hand. It's nice to know it's there and always was, all I have to do is tap into it.  It may only (seem) as if people train only in prey, because it's what you start out with and what brings less pressure, fuller grips and what you should be working in the most.

Our helper trains this way. The dogs in our club all do very well in bite work. Most going "V" in trials. The other nice thing is that they will also bite when there is no sleeve. Which to me shows the best of both worlds.  You'd be supprised how many people, who have their own training groups, will come to him to work their dogs saying that they need help with barking or to solve confidence issues. This is because they are all preyed out and just want the sleeve."

Your trainer sounds allot like mine.

I am new to this but I don't think she is at all afraid or trying to avoid the helper at all.  She pulls and jumps at him to the point she flips /twists when she reaches the end of her lead.  She is attached to her harness so it doesn't pull her neck.  When she grabs the sleeve, she pulls against the helper & shakes.  She dropped the sleeve a few times when it got caught in the lead and tried to re-grab it.  The helper snapped the whip, etc. to get her attention  so she is more directed at him.  

Teri    

If you are talking about the Fero then u have seen his video and if you are some what knowldgable you would call that a display of fight drive.some dogs do it especialy dogs with fight drive always give little extra.if you look the Fero son Troll does it and timmy in their videos.this is not the same as dog shaking the sleeve on the ground.have a nice one.