Unethical breeding practices - Page 3

Serena,

I won't speak for Alligsd, but yes I know her.

And as anyone will tell you, be prepared and grow a thick skin if your gonna post because yes there will be bashing.   Its the nature of the beast I'm afraid.

I think she can survive the bashing and maybe learn what not to do. 

I'm really looking forward to reading  the answers to Cates questions, they are after all, good questions.  Will I be surprised when the breeder ignores or rationalizes - not at all.

I will say this to all,

This board is sometimes very hard on an individual who is perhaps not as perfect as some of you think you are.

She is learning and thats what the board is suposed to be about.   Explain better breeding without burning her at the stake.

I have been to her home one time and she takes good care of her animals, she works with her dogs and is trying to do her best.    I too have much to learn.

Lets have discussion without the throwing of stones.

Good luck Kristi.

GSDfan143,

You opened this topic and yet where are you now?   Watching?   Getting off?    Looking for more fodder for the board to chew on?

We're better than this.

SSDD

You opened this topic and yet where are you now?   Watching?   Getting off?    Looking for more fodder for the board to chew on?

We're better than this.

Um,we are better than this, who are you kidding 2 moon.LOL  

I think the fact that GSDfan143 created his/her profile name for the first time yesterday and hasn't returned says it all. 

On the positive side, I have been a member of this message board for a couple of months.  There is alot of good information posted here and it has helped me alot reading others "opinions".  I read all the posts and form my own opinion on what is good for my two babies. 

After loosing my beloved  8 year (young) female Shepherd "Serena" last year due to bloat and a stomach that twisted which we went through the surgery for but she never recovered from,  I am very grateful to have two new GSD's to love.  I wouldn't have any other breed.

Have a nice day everyone. 

Laura Savage

LOVE GSD's & Serena Tenbarge -

Let me clarify something.....my reply was no personal attack, act of jealousy or feeling of competition.  It was just that....a reply. That's a ridiculous thing to claim considering the topic .  Why would I be jealous of that????  What do I have to be jealous of??  If I wanted to breed my puppies, I could.....but wouldn't dare think about it.  I'll be patient and let them be puppies, grow, and work my butt off to get them titled and then of course OFA certified.  Only then I hope they mature into excellent representations of the breed and have something to contribute to the German Shepherd breed as a whole.  As of now I only have 2 adult GSDs(1 male and 1 female)  that I occassionally use for breeding, which are my nationally certified (and state evaluated) SAR dogs and have both been a part of many, many searches and have proven themself as Working dogs and well balanced GSDs.  Visited many schools, boy scout camps, nursing homes, etc.... They are OFA certified both hips and elbows.  They are also Working bloodlines and Kristi is now breeding Showlines which is completely different.....how is that considered "competition"?  I have recently taken a break from SAR to pursue my interest in Schutzhund with my pups and having a blast.  Yes, I plan to breed on a small scale showlines GSDs in 2-3 years once my pups are grown, titled, OFA certified, and are excellent representations of the breed (keeping my fingers crossed....you just don't know at this age). 

You are right no one is perfect and has the perfect kennel.  I'm sure you can find something wrong with anyone's. 

I've replied to other posts regarding "unethical breeders".  So it's not just because she lives in my area..lol.  Another one comes to mind that the dog used as stud was OFA prelimed Borderline and the dam of the litter wasn't OFA'd at all.  I don't agree either with breeding a puppy that isn't fully developed, the temperment is not yet known, no working titles, etc....pretty much all the questions Ceph said is what runs through my mind.  I've seen it all as a Vet Tech and just get so aggravated when people do it just for the money and not for the breed.  I especially get upset about the German Shepherds because I love and respect the breed so much.  So yes, I guess you can say I can be very opinionated when it comes to certain things. Sometimes too much so, I get angry and won't shut up.....working on that.  I wouldn't consider that attacking, I'm speaking from experience.  There are many kennels I would buy a dog from and there's many I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.  I don't consider myself a long time, popular kennel at all.  Actually I don't even have a kennel....my dogs live in the house and are very spoiled.  I've only had two litters and fortunate to have dogs from those litter actively working as Police/Narcotic dogs, SAR, Schutzhund, Agility, personal protection and awesome pets.  In my eyes this is a huge success, but I have many, many goals.  I'm looking foward to titling my own breeding stock (hate using that word because they are my "kids"/pets). 

Kristi asked my opinion about her "A" litter...she had 2 puppies with umbilical hernias and she didn't know if it was caused from trauma at birth or if it was congenital and asked my opinion as to what I would charge.  My opinion was no more than $500 USD to a pet home  (mother untitled import with a stamp and SG show rating to very nicely titled stud) and I would have the hernia repaired before it leaves to go to the new owner (or offer to pay to have it repaired when she was spayed) and sell on a spay/neuter agreement w/limited registration.  She didn't like that opinion at all, and

my message got cut off....

said some nasty comments.  She wanted to charge more money.  That's fine...it's her dogs, she asked for my opinion and I gave it.  I had a puppy from a litter at the same time that had an umbilical hernia but it was caused from trauma at birth and I have that documented.  I paid to have the hernia repaired before he went to his new home, and she was completely informed of everything.  He was sold w/full registration because it was 100% from trauma and NOT congenital.  If she didn't like my opinion that's fine, but there was no reason to react the way she did, and of course I got aggravated and expressed my feelings on her not OFA hip/elbow certifying her dogs.  I'm sure others may have different opinions, and I was going from what I was taught in college, tested over and lectured to from veterinarians. 

This is my last message to this post.  I have other things to do...it's a GORGEOUS day to be outside working the dogs.  I wish she would answer the poster's questions and also Ceph's...it would be great information for us all, maybe there's something new we don't know?  I would be curous as to why anyone would breed a male puppy?  Or not take the steps to OFA certify their breeding stock?  It's not Kristi only.........other "breeders" do this too.....why???  Is it money?  Wanting just to have puppies because they are fun???  I wouldn't think it's to better the breed or any other particular goal, but that's just perspective. 

I wish AKC would regulate the breeding of dogs the way the SV does.  Things would be SO much better. Does anyone see this happening??  Probably not? 

GSDFan143 -   Are you satisfied with your replies? Why have you not responded to the post you created?  Please PM me if you don't mind, I've tried to contact you. 

The bottom line is:

The breeder will choose to do what they feel is right, and no one else's personal oppinion should matter to them on what they do in their own breeding program.  Each breeder sets their own price, and places their puppies in homes for whatever amount they choose.  There is no need for heated discussion.  Sperm is sperm and will produce the same puppies at 8mos or 2yrs, titled or untitled.  A VA/SchH3/KKL1/"a" male will produce the same quality in his puppies at 7mos as he will at 5yrs.  An untitled male with no certifications, who could make VA/SchH3/KKL1/"a" will also produce the same quality in his puppies.  No need to attack the breeder; if you don't like it...buy a puppy elsewhere.